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Re: China

#211

Post by uitersers »

baron_harkonnen wrote: post #21

If I might post an unpopular opinion, and let me assure you I'm not secretly a pro-CCP shill: what's happening HK has much more to do with changing economic realities than it does with an evil agenda from the Chinese government. In 1997 HK had 1/3 of the GDP of mainland China and was the only way for Western companies to interact with China. Today HK has 3% of the GDP of mainland China and a huge part of this is beca…

It’s definitely about the economy. Just look at Macau.

There are no protests there. They were also a former Westen colony and now under 1 country, 2 systems like Hong Kong.

The only difference is their GDP per capita is almost twice that of Hong Kong’s.

Re: China

#212

Post by simlevesque »

baby wrote: post #157
spacehunt wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social media in China is also heavily censored and manipulated. There are quite a few in mainland China who understands what's going on here in Hong Kong, but most buy into the state propaganda and wants us exterminated for being "separatists" and "traitors of the Chinese race."

There’s a lot of mainland people in the US who think the western medias are all biased and that they are helping HK to separate from China.

> There’s a lot of mainland people in the US who think the western medias are all biased

Isn't it ? I mean, I don't respect China much but this is not a false statement.

Re: China

#213

Post by uitersers »

aianus wrote: post #189
nycsamurai wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here but I don't think it would cost $2 more for a keyboard, try > $100 for a keyboard. Unicomp is one example, made in Japan Realforce keyboards go for $200-$300. New balance makes sneakers in the USA but those cost ~$200. Everything would cost 2-3x. Would you pay $3000-4000 for an iphone that's built in the USA? Ever try to find a toaster oven that's made in USA? There is one but i…

Why made in USA? Why not made in India or Vietnam?

If it’s human rights you’re worried about, then Vietnam is also communist and what India is doing in Kashmir is worse than Hong Kong’s situation.

Re: China

#214

Post by sct202 »

jjoonathan wrote: post #134
Barrin92 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

most of the job losses of blue-collar work are the result of automation, not foreign trade (this is a statement for which ample evidence exists[1]), furthermore on the aggregate Americans do benefit from trade with not just China but also other low-cost nations, which again is economics 101. If the United States were to produce goods at the level of domestic wages a small segment of the workforce would benefit, but c…

That's certainly the traditional narrative, but it always smelled a bit fishy to me because I've seen far more success in outsourcing manufacturing than I've seen in automating it. Sure enough: https://qz.com/1269172/the-epic-mistake-about-manufacturing-...

Both are definitely contributing, but automation/process improvements is very apparent in steel production: "In the 1980s, American steelmakers needed 10.1 man-hours to produce a ton of steel; now they need 1.5 man-hours, says Joe Innace of S&P Global Platts." https://apnews.com/cae426730cd74e64932e4be7fa5cdebc/As-Trump...

Or in Austria: "The plant, a two-hour drive southwest of Vienna, will need just 14 employees to make 500,000 tons of robust steel wire a year—vs. as many as 1,000 in a mill with similar capacity built in the 1960s." https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-21/how-just-...

Re: China

#215

Post by dosy »

Yes, fight.. And be polarised. That is what they want.

Said Darth Siddius.

Re: China

#216

Post by Aperocky »

ilamont wrote: post #43

Xi's in a trap. The nationalist fervor that the CCP has whipped up for decades, coupled with the demonization of the HK protestors by Chinese media and Xi's 'no compromise' stance, makes it impossible for him to lighten up -- and the protests to de-escalate -- without him seeming weak. The HK protestors/population at this point are so angry and the radical wing so large, that they won't willingly de-escalate. Even if…

Both the west and China omit information when reporting about HK. China highlights protester violence, the west talk about police. The only difference is that west is doing it voluntarily.

If you step back and think about it, if this protest were to happen in the US, with subways burned, shops destroyed, road blocked, for 6 months. What is going to happen? Compare this hypothetical scenario with what happened in Hong Kong.

Where’s the gap? In 2019 we’ve been accustomed to export thinking to other people and import outrage from the cheapest source. And it doesn’t take a dictatorial government to push a narrative.

Re: China

#217

Post by Barrin92 »

mc32 wrote: post #183
Barrin92 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That Americans are poor is likely a consequence of the current trade imbalances. This story is improbable because the overwhelming majority of America's poorest are employed in the domestic service industry who are not facing negative exposure to international trade. Every store clerk, every McDonalds worker, every garbage man, cleaning lady, janitor, nanny, teacher and so on will be one-sided losers of an increase…

So you’re claiming if manufacturing had stayed and it offered decent wages those service workers would still choose to stay in the service industry?

there is no such scenario because manufacturing would not have stayed. As explained in my original post, automation constitutes the bulk of replacement of manufacturing jobs. If every single manufacturing job from China came back to the United States we would be talking about a low single digit percentage number of the american workforce.

Re: China

#219

Post by Analemma_ »

siffland wrote: post #126
lazaruzatgmail wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

which means he is voting to keep the incumbent in This is a binary choice dem or repub any other choice is a vote for the incumbent

I have someone I work with who quite literally mocks people for voting for a 3rd party and actually tries to "shame" them for it, usually using a line like "which means he is voting to keep the incumbent in" (usually with more colorful words about the incumbent and the voter). Voting 3rd party exercises your right to say you don't like either of the other 2 candidates. I will not argue which candidate it will help, b…

> Voting 3rd party exercises your right to say you don't like either of the other 2 candidates

You can say whatever you want, but no one is listening. Voter turnout is so low that the signal of voting 3rd-party is completely lost in the noise of passive non-voting. 3rd-party votes might feel good, but pragmatically (and what is voting except a pragmatic attempt to advance your preferred policy), they are useless.

I encourage everyone on this comment chain to read Clay Shirky's "There is no such thing as a protest vote" [0], and really take it seriously, instead of jumping to thought-terminating cliches by angrily denouncing him as a sheep or whatever. He's right.

[0]: https://medium.com/@cshirky/theres-no-such-thing-as-a-protes...

Re: China

#220

Post by jeffdavis »

"not beneficial to anyone but those who are already obscenely rich, and certainly not for our poorest"

An otherwise fact-driven post is undermined with this claim. Even if true, it would be very hard to support this claim.

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