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China Tortured Me over Hong Kong, Says Former British Consulate Employee

nytimes.com

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Re: China Tortured Me over Hong Kong, Says Former British Consulate Employee

#11

Post by cgriswald »

hnarn wrote: post #3
cgriswald wrote: post #2

I've been watching both For All Mankind (Ronald D. Moore, in which the Soviets beat the U.S. to the moon) and The Man in the High Castle (based on the P.K. Dick novel in which the Axis powers win WW II), and have generally always enjoyed alternate history fiction. So, I find myself wondering how this would have all played out if the Cold War hadn't ended and Soviet Union hadn't fallen apart before 1999 when Britain w…

Do you mean that it's reasonable to assume that the USSR wouldn't have backed China? Or what's the "alternate" part of this history?

> Or what's the "alternate" part of this history?

I'm not sure what you are asking. The alternate part is the part where the Soviet Union doesn't collapse a half decade before the handover of HK back to China.

Would a Cold War Britain have really handed over HK? What does China look like without the West's influx of money for manufacturing? (Maybe that still happens.) If it leads to war, how does that play out? Is it another Korea/Vietnam or does it blossom into WW III? Does it end with a new lease or an armistice? If 9/11 still happens during this crisis, how does a Cold War world respond to it?

A major part of such works is that they allow us to look at ourselves and our real history through a different light.

Re: China Tortured Me over Hong Kong, Says Former British Consulate Employee

#12

Post by bigpumpkin »

cgriswald wrote: post #2

I've been watching both For All Mankind (Ronald D. Moore, in which the Soviets beat the U.S. to the moon) and The Man in the High Castle (based on the P.K. Dick novel in which the Axis powers win WW II), and have generally always enjoyed alternate history fiction. So, I find myself wondering how this would have all played out if the Cold War hadn't ended and Soviet Union hadn't fallen apart before 1999 when Britain w…

China and the Soviet Union were almost at war during the late 70s. Western relations with China were much better than today precisely because the Soviet Union was a common enemy.

Re: China Tortured Me over Hong Kong, Says Former British Consulate Employee

#13

Post by perennate »

panpanna wrote: post #9
khc wrote: post #7

The best smartphone security doesn't help when you are forced to unlock your phone.

I wonder why the embassy did not remotely wipe his phone, since this was his work phone. With that said, I don't understand how he could not have expected that when visiting China.

> With that said, I don't understand how he could not have expected that when visiting China.

He was employed by the British consulate in Hong Kong. Generally it's not a good idea for countries to torture people working for foreign consulates given that it's sure to spark huge diplomatic crises. The level of physical abuse forced on him is despicable, hopefully the EU will have the guts to impose strict economic sanctions on China to deter the Chinese government from taking insane actions like this again.

Re: China Tortured Me over Hong Kong, Says Former British Consulate Employee

#14

Post by neaden »

khc wrote: post #7

The best smartphone security doesn't help when you are forced to unlock your phone.

They didn't really need his phone though. They were never actually trying to get information from him, just forcing him to say certain things.

Re: China Tortured Me over Hong Kong, Says Former British Consulate Employee

#15

Post by baby »

panpanna wrote: post #4

Nytimes is paywlled, here is Cheng's own account of the events: https://www.facebook.com/notes/cheng-man-kit/for-the-record-... Edit: archive link for the above https://archive.is/LWyz2 (I guess I'm on some kind of list now)

This was extremely hard to read... I cannot imagine what is happening to other people similarly detained or who got arrested for worse reasons...

Re: China Tortured Me over Hong Kong, Says Former British Consulate Employee

#16

Post by hnarn »

cgriswald wrote: post #11
hnarn wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean that it's reasonable to assume that the USSR wouldn't have backed China? Or what's the "alternate" part of this history?

> Or what's the "alternate" part of this history? I'm not sure what you are asking. The alternate part is the part where the Soviet Union doesn't collapse a half decade before the handover of HK back to China. Would a Cold War Britain have really handed over HK? What does China look like without the West's influx of money for manufacturing? (Maybe that still happens.) If it leads to war, how does that play out? Is it…

I just think you're vastly overestimating the impact a still standing Soviet union would have on Hong Kong. My personal guess is that it would play out in about the same way.

Re: China Tortured Me over Hong Kong, Says Former British Consulate Employee

#17

Post by EpicEng »

cloverich wrote: post #10
khc wrote: post #7

The best smartphone security doesn't help when you are forced to unlock your phone.

Until the "best smartphone security" is two passwords: The second you enter when under duress, and it populates your phone with pro government content based on your current location. Or just wipes your phone. Or permanently locks, encrypts, and sends decryption key to some trusted source.

At which point your captors just beat or murder you because they know that feature exists.

Re: China Tortured Me over Hong Kong, Says Former British Consulate Employee

#18

Post by MperorM »

cloverich wrote: post #10
khc wrote: post #7

The best smartphone security doesn't help when you are forced to unlock your phone.

Until the "best smartphone security" is two passwords: The second you enter when under duress, and it populates your phone with pro government content based on your current location. Or just wipes your phone. Or permanently locks, encrypts, and sends decryption key to some trusted source.

And then we beat you up for deliberately sabotaging our investigation. If you didn't have anything to hide why would you wipe your phone? Clearly you must be a spy or worse so we have no choice but to send you to the re-education camp.

Re: China Tortured Me over Hong Kong, Says Former British Consulate Employee

#19

Post by cloverich »

EpicEng wrote: post #17
cloverich wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until the "best smartphone security" is two passwords: The second you enter when under duress, and it populates your phone with pro government content based on your current location. Or just wipes your phone. Or permanently locks, encrypts, and sends decryption key to some trusted source.

At which point your captors just beat or murder you because they know that feature exists.

Sure, unless they actually want the information. So you'd' have to choose which outcome would be better for you and / or your cause. But that's the point, at least you'd still get to choose. For the sake of argument, imagine the dual password is a bit more intelligent about what it displays and hides based on what you've entered.
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