China • Hacker News Board

Re: China

#81

Post by kick » Wed, Nov 20, 2019, 4:51 PM UTC

swlkr wrote: post #35

mc32 wrote: post #2

>”It’s economically productive for the 1% to maintain a trade relationship with China. The financial incentives don’t help any Americans, and in fact, most of us are hurt by this relationship...” So true, since its inception with GHW, its execution and realization through Clinton and then once fully engaged the timid, supplicant responses from GW and BO, China has contributed to the stagnation of the blue collar work…

I know this wasn't intended but I thought it was interesting that he doesn't think of the 1% as Americans.

They aren't, generally.

Given the condition of the lowest of our nation, "traitors" isn't an unreasonable way to describe the 1%, and no one in the 1% has ever seen a firing squad or the electric chair. Not even lethal injection. If they aren't subject to the same rules as Americans, are they really Americans? If they have a higher amount of wealth than sovereign countries, can they be considered anything but sovereign?

Re: China

#82

Post by spacehunt » Wed, Nov 20, 2019, 4:51 PM UTC

ilamont wrote: post #43

Xi's in a trap. The nationalist fervor that the CCP has whipped up for decades, coupled with the demonization of the HK protestors by Chinese media and Xi's 'no compromise' stance, makes it impossible for him to lighten up -- and the protests to de-escalate -- without him seeming weak. The HK protestors/population at this point are so angry and the radical wing so large, that they won't willingly de-escalate. Even if…

Social media in China is also heavily censored and manipulated. There are quite a few in mainland China who understands what's going on here in Hong Kong, but most buy into the state propaganda and wants us exterminated for being "separatists" and "traitors of the Chinese race."

Re: China

#83

Post by CharlesColeman » Wed, Nov 20, 2019, 4:52 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #30

kick wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The guy "no one likes" isn't innocent of China-worship. Guiltier than most. On Jinping: "He is a great leader who very much has the respect of his people. He is also a good man in a 'tough business.'" Misrepresenting him as "willing to sever that codependent relationship" is harmful. He's just as complicit if not more than most politicians, and most of his actions involving China have been inconsistent and self-servi…

He’s prone to this honne tatemae and it’s hard to know his actual take. I think he’s like a used car salesman who uses and throws whatever cheap trick he has to try to get his way...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honne_and_tatemae

> In Japan, honne are a person's true feelings and desires (本音 hon'ne, "true sound"), and tatemae are the behavior and opinions one displays in public (建前 tatemae, "built in front", "façade").

Re: China

#84

Post by Miner49er » Wed, Nov 20, 2019, 4:52 PM UTC

fastball wrote: post #63

Miner49er wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is whataboutism, but the U.S. is guilty of a lot of similar things that China is, not as bad in most cases, but I think it's fair to compare the Uyghurs to Guantanamo, the way we're treating immigrants at the border, or how discriminatory our justice system is towards black people. We have a higher percentage of people in jail then China by a lot (5x). Many of them are in jail for political/racial reasons (the Dru…

The Drug War is hardly political, and hardline immigration policies are not "racial".

"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people," former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman told Harper's writer Dan Baum for the April cover story published Tuesday. "You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities," Ehrlichman said. "We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did." [1]

Crack cocaine carried a much harsher sentence then Cocaine, a law that very clearly targeted black people. [2]

Marijuana use is the same between white and black people, but black people are 3.73x more likely to be arrested for it.[3]

[1] https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-rich...

[2] https://www.aclu.org/other/cracks-system-20-years-unjust-fed...

[3] https://www.aclu.org/report/report-war-marijuana-black-and-w...

Re: China

#85

Post by kp98 » Wed, Nov 20, 2019, 4:52 PM UTC

baron_harkonnen wrote: post #21

If I might post an unpopular opinion, and let me assure you I'm not secretly a pro-CCP shill: what's happening HK has much more to do with changing economic realities than it does with an evil agenda from the Chinese government. In 1997 HK had 1/3 of the GDP of mainland China and was the only way for Western companies to interact with China. Today HK has 3% of the GDP of mainland China and a huge part of this is beca…

I heard the economic side of the argument before; I do not believe it entitles China to break the deal it made - the date set was 2047 not 2019

Re: China

#86

Post by davidw » Wed, Nov 20, 2019, 4:53 PM UTC

No mention of the TPP?

Seems like a pretty big omission, given that it's what smart people were putting together to give us some better leverage against them without "going cold turkey", which would tank the economy in a massive way that would absolutely crush those who are not so well off.

Re: China

#87

Post by echelon » Wed, Nov 20, 2019, 4:53 PM UTC

spectramax wrote: post #22

Liberal societies, such as the Bay Area (where I live), it’s impossible to criticize anyone without having the doubt of “offending” someone. When it comes to China, I can’t go out in the lunch room and openly criticize CCP because you know, I could “offend” a Chinese National. This needs to stop. I see this behavior on HN, which is frustrating, counterproductive, anti-free speech and extremely left-winged. Another pr…

You're being downvoted for expressing a contrarian viewpoint.

This kind of censorship isn't even targeting hate speech, and it drives me crazy. Why downvote them?

Re: China

#88

Post by friendlybus » Wed, Nov 20, 2019, 4:53 PM UTC

kick wrote: post #7

mc32 wrote: post #2

>”It’s economically productive for the 1% to maintain a trade relationship with China. The financial incentives don’t help any Americans, and in fact, most of us are hurt by this relationship...” So true, since its inception with GHW, its execution and realization through Clinton and then once fully engaged the timid, supplicant responses from GW and BO, China has contributed to the stagnation of the blue collar work…

The guy "no one likes" isn't innocent of China-worship. Guiltier than most. On Jinping: "He is a great leader who very much has the respect of his people. He is also a good man in a 'tough business.'" Misrepresenting him as "willing to sever that codependent relationship" is harmful. He's just as complicit if not more than most politicians, and most of his actions involving China have been inconsistent and self-servi…

He started a trade war with the country. He isn't just one thing, but idk how people are forgetting the last year and a half so quickly on the run up to Christmas. This guy is notorious for being 'post truth' and making off colour jokes which is bad, but what he says is surely quieter than what he does?

Re: China

#89

Post by csomar » Wed, Nov 20, 2019, 4:54 PM UTC

> It’s nice to believe that we would have stood up to Nazi Germany if we had been there in the 1940’s. China is our generation’s chance to prove ourselves of that conviction.

This, right over here, might explain why Hitler got away with what he did for a long time before the international community decided it's time to do something.

Re: China

#90

Post by _xnmw » Wed, Nov 20, 2019, 4:55 PM UTC

Empires rise and fall, and are replaced by new ones. It's the cycle of life. As much as I would hate to live in a China-dominated global economy, it now seems highly likely to happen within my lifetime. Better learn to live with it, or move to a country which isn't so dependent on the global supply chain by virtue of its Western lifestyle.