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China

drewdevault.com

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Re: China

#21

Post by baron_harkonnen »

If I might post an unpopular opinion, and let me assure you I'm not secretly a pro-CCP shill: what's happening HK has much more to do with changing economic realities than it does with an evil agenda from the Chinese government.

In 1997 HK had 1/3 of the GDP of mainland China and was the only way for Western companies to interact with China. Today HK has 3% of the GDP of mainland China and a huge part of this is because China has opened its borders to foreign investment. Shenzhen has a thriving economy because if you're a western company and want to do business with China, you can just go there and do business. In the past you would have had to go through Hong Kong to make this happen.

The Hong Kong riots were sparked because China wanted to extradite someone who murdered his girlfriend in Taiwan and then went to hide in HK to avoid extradition. If the same thing happened in the united states we would be equally furious. Of course I'm not stupid, I know that this extradition is part of a growing feeling of increasingly powerful influence of China on HK, and I know this because this how independent nations feel when the US similarly puts extradition pressure on other countries. Look what happened with Julian Assange!

But the protests in Hong Kong aren't just about some emergent "evil" coming from China. Their part of the economic and social anxiety that comes from having your economic power completely change in the span of 20 years. In America we know power and independence go hand in hand.

I'm equally as wary of growing Chinese political power as I am of US Hegemony. But the current strife in Hong Kong is perfect propaganda fuel for both the US and China. Both nations essentially get to stoke the flames of nationalism while HK suffers. I strong encourage people to at least question the prevailing narratives from both sides and start to look at the economic realities of what's happening.

Re: China

#22

Post by spectramax »

Liberal societies, such as the Bay Area (where I live), it’s impossible to criticize anyone without having the doubt of “offending” someone. When it comes to China, I can’t go out in the lunch room and openly criticize CCP because you know, I could “offend” a Chinese National.

This needs to stop. I see this behavior on HN, which is frustrating, counterproductive, anti-free speech and extremely left-winged.

Another problem is to try being a moderate in these liberal pockets of America. The moment you pick out a couple of things that I agree about what Trump is doing, I get intense opposition, lose friendships, get judged, etc.

The Bay Area, the Silicon Valley, the 3 trillion dollar neighbor of America is a suffocating place for anyone who has dissenting opinion about some liberal concepts.

Silicon Valley people think that moderates and right-wing folks hate gays, lgbt community and loves guns, hates China which is far from the truth. Then they feel to justify themselves by overcompensating, supporting China and smearing the truth. Ironically, they make fun of right-wing echo chambers.

If your political ideology looks away from objective truth, you need to question it. No matter how “conservative” or “liberal”.

This is from my personal experience, your MMV.

Re: China

#23

Post by Invictus0 »

mdorazio wrote: post #14

The problem is that doing what the author proposes and severing trade relations entirely would be extremely harmful to the 99% of Americans in the short term. Prices for virtually everything would skyrocket far faster than wages. And they would do so for everyone, not just blue collar workers. In the long term things might be better, but it would be a lot more painful to get there than I think most Americans are prep…

The tariffs are working; companies are thinking about China as a problem and how to minimize their reliance on China in case of disaster. Supply chains are moving out of China and into Taiwan and Vietnam and the Philippines. This is happening slowly but also smoothly. Let's keep raising the tariffs and let companies know the planned tariffs schedule for several years in advance. When companies understand that they need to get out of China or lose their competitive edge, only then will we start to see a mass exodus from Chinese manufacturing.

Re: China

#24

Post by honest_tovarich »

I lived in China for 5 years, most of the time in Xinjiang, and is sad how the media manipulates people in the west, you clearly have never been in XinJiang or in China at all. You can believe whatever you want and I'm sure most readers here will support you, because like you , they have been deceived. What is happening in Hong Kong is sad, I agree with you there, and something should be done by the US and their allies.But, Uighurs are one of the 56 ethnics groups of China, like Mongolians, Weiwer, ... not a nationality, and not the only Muslim ethnic group, there is no concentration camps or anything like that. Sorry. There are Uighurs terrorists in prison after the bomb car exploded in TianAnMen and the incident in Kunming's train station in 2013, that you probably dont know about, in the same way the US have Iraqis and afghans in Guantanamo... just because..... Good luck with your campaign, I'm sure people with join you and think you are the coolest guy in HN today. But I had to break it up to you... sorry

Re: China

#25

Post by jchw »

Hey Drew, just wanted to say I couldn’t agree more. I do not know about the US’s domestic manufacturing capabilities, and I don’t think I care, either; this situation is not OK. It probably wasn’t OK for a very long time. Something needs to change. It probably won’t come at a small cost.

I’m sure this thread will have a lot of whataboutism. Remember what your parents always told you: two wrongs don’t make a right.

Re: China

#26

Post by esotericn »

mdorazio wrote: post #14

The problem is that doing what the author proposes and severing trade relations entirely would be extremely harmful to the 99% of Americans in the short term. Prices for virtually everything would skyrocket far faster than wages. And they would do so for everyone, not just blue collar workers. In the long term things might be better, but it would be a lot more painful to get there than I think most Americans are prep…

If you treat the cost of consumer goods in isolation as the only thing that matters in the economy, sure.

People who are gainfully employed do not have a problem with the cost of general goods like food and electronics; this stuff is cheap.

The problem (not only in the US) for most is under/unemployment and the cost of housing.

Because the jobs have been shipped offshore.

Re: China

#27

Post by ddevault »

maximente wrote: post #12

i applaud your willingness to publish this content under your real name, and also understand your real name is closely associated with your software service. i understand that gives you a certain amount of power that other employees, say of Apple, may not have. kudos to you for using it fruitfully - sincerely. i am sure this will come across as tin foily, but i would advise you to monitor your digital assets and mayb…

Author here. Thank you for your earnest concern. I'm a pretty risk-averse person and I take lots of pains to address those contingencies for all of my digital services.

Re: China

#28

Post by sneak »

It really surprised me that Google staff went apeshit over Dragonfly, and GitHubbers over the ICE contract, yet Apple rank and file seem relatively content with a special backdoored iCloud service that is used in China, no doubt used daily to target people for human rights abuses via surveillance.

Re: China

#29

Post by honest_tovarich »

baron_harkonnen wrote: post #21

If I might post an unpopular opinion, and let me assure you I'm not secretly a pro-CCP shill: what's happening HK has much more to do with changing economic realities than it does with an evil agenda from the Chinese government. In 1997 HK had 1/3 of the GDP of mainland China and was the only way for Western companies to interact with China. Today HK has 3% of the GDP of mainland China and a huge part of this is beca…

Exactly, I will also like people to get more familiar with the matter before making an opinion for them self ,but yeah , you pretty much nailed it.

Re: China

#30

Post by mc32 »

kick wrote: post #7
mc32 wrote: post #2

>”It’s economically productive for the 1% to maintain a trade relationship with China. The financial incentives don’t help any Americans, and in fact, most of us are hurt by this relationship...” So true, since its inception with GHW, its execution and realization through Clinton and then once fully engaged the timid, supplicant responses from GW and BO, China has contributed to the stagnation of the blue collar work…

The guy "no one likes" isn't innocent of China-worship. Guiltier than most. On Jinping: "He is a great leader who very much has the respect of his people. He is also a good man in a 'tough business.'" Misrepresenting him as "willing to sever that codependent relationship" is harmful. He's just as complicit if not more than most politicians, and most of his actions involving China have been inconsistent and self-servi…

He’s prone to this honne tatemae and it’s hard to know his actual take. I think he’s like a used car salesman who uses and throws whatever cheap trick he has to try to get his way...
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