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The 40% Keyboard

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Re: The 40% Keyboard

#231

Post by dsego »

ssully wrote: post #222
dsego wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not hard to learn to use the mouse with your non-dominant hand. It's just a couple of days of practice. And then switch between your left and you right every other day. Don't even have to flip the buttons, just learn to use the index for secondary and middle for primary clicks.

I am right handed but use my mouse left handed because growing up my Dad always had the mouse on the left side of the keyboard (because he is lefty). I used to move it to the right side, but gave up because the way our desk was basically required you to rerun the cable.

My thinking was, hey if I can learn to fret my guitar chords with my left hand, than I can learn to use the mouse. I also hold the knife in my right and fork in my left.

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#232

Post by gothroach »

dangus wrote: post #7

Call me cynical, but I think a lot of the small style keyboards I see around the office are more of a fashion trend than anything. I remember when the insistence was on number pads, and how dare they be removed from our laptops and desktop keyboards. Fast forward a few years and I was made fun of at a programming job for preferring a full keyboard with a number pads. I guess programmers are too cool to enter in dolla…

I use an 80% keyboard (TKL) for gaming, but a full-sized keyboard for work/normal typing. The TKL keyboard lets me have it positioned a lot closer to my mouse, which allows for a more ergonomic posture for long gaming sessions. I could never give up the ten key for numeric input though - it's just too convenient and quick.

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#233

Post by vollmond »

I love my Keebio Iris; I've built three at this point, for my two work machines and my home office. 60%, split, columnar, programmable with QMK. Since they're completely split, with only a cable between them, I can place them in whatever angle is perfectly comfortable for me, and I have room for my track ball between them for super easy access [0]

The main power in these custom boards is in the firmware, allowing you limitless customization. If you're the sort of person to place Escape or Control on your CapsLock button via OS tools, this takes that to another level. I never have to take my hands out of home position.

Some of my layout details [1]:

* When spacebar is held down, it activates a navigation layer instead of typing space. In this layer, I have HJKL arrow keys, along with page up/down, home/end, my numrow becomes function keys, and Tab/CapsLock cycle through browser tabs.

* The CapsLock button is Escape when tapped, Control when held down.

* The damn. key [0] is Control-Alt-Delete when tapped once, Control-Shift-Escape when tapped twice.

* The fn key, when held, turns the right half of the board into a traditional numpad descending from the 789 keys in the numrow.

* The raise key, when held, gives access to any special characters not already in the main layout (-_{}[]+=|\)

I also have a separate BDN9 macropad [0] with rotary encoders for volume/zoom, and keys mapped to the debugging navigation keys for software debugging. Also has a screenshot macro (print screen, win+R, type "mspaint", enter, wait 750ms, control+P). It has a key that will open notepad on a single-tap (win+R, type "notepad", enter) or type out a long email header I use frequently when double-tapped.

There is certainly an aesthetic component (I love the look and feel of my boards and my keycaps), and the build was a big draw (soldering everything together, programming the layout), but the benefit of having a totally custom setup for my specific needs is fantastic.

[0] My primary work setup: https://imgur.com/a/uvuDeE3

[1] My QMK layout file: https://github.com/imnotpete/qmk_firmware/blob/master/keyboa...

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#234

Post by dasKrokodil »

clarry wrote: post #81
jacobolus wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here is not the lack of an additional row of number keys, but the poor other choices in physical keyboard layout (based on largely following the historical pattern of a 19th century typewriter design; in the “planck” example with an arbitrary ergonomically-useless horizontal shifting of the rows). It also doesn’t work very well to put the numbers on a shifted layer but all on the same row, requiring 8 fin…

If you re-arrange the keyboard into a shape according to human hand ergonomics, you can easily fit a number row that is easy to reach without making typos. See kinesis advantage. It's hard to imagine how requiring me to press two different keys for the same effect would increase speed and reduce typos. I suspect the effect is completely opposite. (Shift is painful enough and I hate typing camelcase code) Number keys…

I use a Kinesis Advantage, and although the number row is indeed easy to reach, I still prefer using an embedded numpad on a layer. It's just faster, more accurate and feels less awkward than the number row. Even on the Advantage, the numbers 1, 5, 6 and 0 are awkward to type when using the number row.

EDIT: I agree with you about the gaming aspect, though.

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#235

Post by dsego »

GrayShade wrote: post #159

I don't have RSI, but it seems to me that rotating your wrists to press Ctrl with your pinky is one of the larger parts of the problem. I prefer to press Ctrl with the side of my palm, but that doesn't work on some Lenovo and Apple laptops which Fn is at the edge of the keyboard.

Yeah, one good thing about apple computers is that the Cmd button is under your thumb, much easier than Ctrl.

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#236

Post by sleepybrett »

dangus wrote: post #7

Call me cynical, but I think a lot of the small style keyboards I see around the office are more of a fashion trend than anything. I remember when the insistence was on number pads, and how dare they be removed from our laptops and desktop keyboards. Fast forward a few years and I was made fun of at a programming job for preferring a full keyboard with a number pads. I guess programmers are too cool to enter in dolla…

The smallest I can go is a "65%" essentially the main keyboard area with an extra right column that generally houses pageup/down ins/del. The extra column allows for a full inverted t arrow cluster.

Something like this: https://d2rormqr1qwzpz.cloudfront.net/photos/2019/01/06/1059...

I've tried smaller boards, but as a software engineer having to do things like chord numbers or arrow keys is simply to much of a chore.

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#237

Post by gbrown »

I never have any problems with wrist fatigue, and I've sometimes wondered if it's because I type "wrong". Holding your fingers at home row and stretching always felt weird to me, and I learned to type naturally. I primarily use three digits on each hand plus thumbs (no pinkies), and I move my hands back and forth as needed - no stretching or reaching.

I can type ~60 WPM if I'm really trying, but I never really have occasion to type that fast

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#238

Post by Symbiote »

dsego wrote: post #231
ssully wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am right handed but use my mouse left handed because growing up my Dad always had the mouse on the left side of the keyboard (because he is lefty). I used to move it to the right side, but gave up because the way our desk was basically required you to rerun the cable.

My thinking was, hey if I can learn to fret my guitar chords with my left hand, than I can learn to use the mouse. I also hold the knife in my right and fork in my left.

> I also hold the knife in my right and fork in my left.

That's the usual way for Europeans.

I never realized Americans did it differently, until we gained an American colleague at lunchtimes, and ... well, it just looked a lot more complicated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eating_utensil_etiquette#Europ...

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#239

Post by dsego »

joosters wrote: post #99
halotrope wrote: post #85

Most people would benefit much more from practicing proper (touch-) typing than upgrading/innovating devices.

Would programmers actually benefit? Realistically, how often are you limited by your typing speed when coding? I can type fast but there’s no way I could ever keep writing code at my typing speed, I’m always pausing to think about what I’m writing. If you type slower, you are still thinking about the code as you type. Is typing really the limiting factor, or is it actually the thinking?

You can type your comments on HN faster, which leaves you more time for work.

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#240

Post by vollmond »

gbrown wrote: post #237

I never have any problems with wrist fatigue, and I've sometimes wondered if it's because I type "wrong". Holding your fingers at home row and stretching always felt weird to me, and I learned to type naturally. I primarily use three digits on each hand plus thumbs (no pinkies), and I move my hands back and forth as needed - no stretching or reaching. I can type ~60 WPM if I'm really trying, but I never really have o…

This sounds a bit like my wife's typing. Super weird to watch, but she can go fast and never complains of pain despite doing 100% of her typing on a laptop.

My computer-related pain started maybe 3 years into my career, and mostly manifested in my fingers and hand, less in my wrist. I switched at that point to a Logitech Wingman trackball and a Microsoft Natural 4000 split, negative-tilt keyboard, and the pain went away almost instantly and hasn't come back in the 12 years or so since.

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