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Local-first software: you own your data, in spite of the cloud

blog.acolyer.org

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Re: Local-first software: you own your data, in spite of the cloud

#121

Post by scbrg »

rgun wrote: post #101
jwr wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Given that it is not very costly for you to prepare your software for on-prem I have been asserting exactly the opposite in this thread.

Assuming you are not providing any updates (not even security critical ones for argument's sake), you only need to package and add documentation for an on-prem installation. Why is it so costly?

> you only need to package and add documentation

None of which are insignificant.

In addition to that you must now support (and test for) a million configurations, rather than just one.

Re: Local-first software: you own your data, in spite of the cloud

#122

Post by ricg »

threatripper wrote: post #98
ricg wrote: post #71

"It should support data access for all time." - This is key for me after I had to convert my notes more than once between formats after the original app(s) went into extinction (beloved Circus Ponies Notebook). That's why I'm designing any new apps around a file format that can be accessed even without the app. I have a "local-first" Kanban/Trello-style app, "Boards" ( http://kitestack.com/boards/ ), that uses zipped…

Boards seems to be Mac only. "A new Mac app to boost your productivity in school, at work, and for personal projects.", "For macOS 10.14 Mojave and later"

Yes, currently Mac-only, no cross-device support yet, but an iOS app is in planning.

Re: Local-first software: you own your data, in spite of the cloud

#123

Post by daleharvey »

I may be biased as the maintainer of PouchDB but you can do all this today (and for the last 5+ years) with PouchDB.

The comment about CouchDB and the "difficulty of getting application-level conflict resolution right" I am not really certain how it applies, You dont have to handle conflicts in Pouch/CouchDB if you dont want to, there is a default model of last write (actually most edits) wins but you can handle them if needed

Re: Local-first software: you own your data, in spite of the cloud

#124

Post by mark_l_watson »

jka wrote: post #114
mark_l_watson wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a very cool web app. I really like being able to type in several ingredients and get relevant recipes. I have a nutrient tracking oriented cooking web site (cookingspace.com) that I basically haven’t modified in ten years - seeing your site maybe will motivate me to give my own some attention.

Thanks Mark - your philosophies around efficient use of ingredients and enjoying healthy meals match our own very closely. I'm having a read of your blog and will drop you a line via email soon.

Great!

Re: Local-first software: you own your data, in spite of the cloud

#125

Post by chabad360 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #39
jariel wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is it. We went from local, to local infrastructure/IT, to cloud services in which data is mixed with other data and ownership is nebulous. The business as you say, favours this, because the 'downsides' of the model are more on the side of risk (your data leaking, losing rights to your data, your data being 'sold' etc.) - which we don't like to pay for until it's too late. Unless there are 'big scares' or re…

If Equifax or even Ashley Madison leaks didn't cause any shift in the software culture, I'm having doubts a breach of Salesforce or G Suite would.

neither of those two store trade secrets/"secret business info", Google and salesforce do.

Re: Local-first software: you own your data, in spite of the cloud

#126

Post by FpUser »

jwr wrote: post #69
thu2111 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not an unreasonable assumption, right? It's just an extrapolation from how desktop/local software has always worked. Demanding a subscription for something that doesn't, technically, need any maintenance or ongoing costs on your part is a relatively new thing. Yes, of course, people expect a stream of updates these days for security if nothing else. But you could sell a version of your app that's static - urge…

I believe a one-time fee for software is fundamentally unsustainable, and a relic of the past, when we had no networking and our operating systems did not evolve quickly. Every piece of software needs maintenance and support. Also, a lot of people seem to forget that even if we pretended that support isn't necessary, just the existence of a standalone version imposes ongoing costs: there is more testing, and the scop…

"...I believe a one-time fee for software is fundamentally unsustainable..."

It is pretty much sustainable. Except few natural cases SAAS is just a wet dream of vendors trying to have constant revenue stream the easy way.

If software needs support/new features you pay for upgrades. Or not if the old version works just fine for you. In my case I use tons of software for which I only paid once (sometimes I pay for upgrades as well). If I had to pay monthly fee for each title I use I'd be spending insane amount of money.

Re: Local-first software: you own your data, in spite of the cloud

#127

Post by FpUser »

jwr wrote: post #58
rgun wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The best part is that many people think that an on-premises version should be less expensive than the online version, and come without a subscription. Which makes sense IMHO, provided they are not expecting any updates to their on-prem installation. It can just be a fork of your current codebase with no new features or warranty. Maybe you can include some terms for critical security updates but that is about it.

But that, unfortunately, is entirely unrealistic. When I discover critical bugs, I can't leave users out in the cold. I believe that the whole concept of "software without support" is fundamentally flawed.

And what if your software is mature and you do not discover any critical bugs?

Re: Local-first software: you own your data, in spite of the cloud

#129

Post by aeden »

jka wrote: post #56

As far as possible, I'm following a local-first methodology for a recipe search, meal planner, and shopping list application: https://www.reciperadar.com There's a 'collaboration' mode which allows peer-to-peer sharing of a session via CRDTs over IPFS. My partner and I select our meals for the week, and then when one of us is doing the shopping, we can mark ingredients as found -- the other person's view reflects tho…

Thank you for the peer-base link. I've been investigating data storage on IPFS for application interop and I love the idea about using an existing library rather than re-inventing one. I will definitely be taking a closer look at this project.

Re: Local-first software: you own your data, in spite of the cloud

#130

Post by habnds »

FpUser wrote: post #128

Article mentions the following tweet: What was the last app you used on your laptop that wasn't: Terminal VS Code Web Browser OS settings That guy must be living in a very limited / imaginary world world. I use boatload of local software

Which are your favorites?
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