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Scott Adams: How to Tax the Rich

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Re: Scott Adams: How to Tax the Rich

#291

Post by natrius »

jmulho wrote: post #271
tptacek wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what point you're trying to make. You cited a payroll tax rate that was half what people really pay in, and implied that it was the same rate that wealthy people paid. Of course you were wrong on both counts. It takes no great insight to notice this; the same observation is at the center of Warren Buffet's complaint that his tax rate is effectively lower than his secretary's. Your analysis is just dead w…

So far, my "overall point is bankrupt", my "analysis is just dead wrong", I am in some kind of hole I need to dig myself out of, and the point I attempted to defend is "pretty disingenuous". Ok, may we proceed? The original point is this: "There's a potentially dangerous line that the US is approaching where... a majority of the population will not be paying income taxes at all." That statement contains two contentio…

The person the government sends the tax bill to is rarely the person whose wealth is reduced by the tax. Since all employers must pay payroll tax, there are few practical alternatives for earning a living (inelastic supply of labor), and employers are price-sensitive and will employ fewer people if they cost more (elastic demand for labor), even the employer's portion of the tax comes from wealth that would've gone to the employees.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_incidence

Re: Scott Adams: How to Tax the Rich

#292

Post by izendejas »

axod wrote: post #276
izendejas wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of all those that agree with such argument, I'd like to get an answer to these questions: 1) have you traveled to a developing|third-world country? 2) if you haven't, you should. if you have... 2a) what price tag do you put on first-class infrastructure that makes your business run smoothly, not to mention make it safer to deliver? 2b) what price tag do you pay to ensure that you have a well-nourished and healthy wor…

> " I'm arguing that if you want to be wealthy one day or are already, it's in your best interest to contribute more." The rich already contribute more. Where's the line? 90% tax rate? 99.9999%?

I should be clear: more than people who are in the middle/lower classes in terms of the effective tax rate (not just marginal), and given our current situation, it may have to be even more than it is today (along with cuts) or the alternative is that the system could collapse.

Re: Scott Adams: How to Tax the Rich

#293

Post by izendejas »

benmccann wrote: post #243
izendejas wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of all those that agree with such argument, I'd like to get an answer to these questions: 1) have you traveled to a developing|third-world country? 2) if you haven't, you should. if you have... 2a) what price tag do you put on first-class infrastructure that makes your business run smoothly, not to mention make it safer to deliver? 2b) what price tag do you pay to ensure that you have a well-nourished and healthy wor…

You're arguing that education, infrastructure, and a non-corrupt court system is responsible for this country's success, which may well be true. However, only a tiny amount of spending is on those things. 85% of spending is on social security, the military, and medicaid. We could cut all of those things dramatically without a corresponding decrease in the country's economic output.

No, I'm including the whole package including health care (see 2b) and military spending which I know just about everyone agrees we need to have some of (see 4), and so on.

Re: Scott Adams: How to Tax the Rich

#294

Post by zizee »

wyclif wrote: post #278
jarek wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no state or province in North America with the kind of driving culture that exists in Germany.

What driving culture are you referring to? The wealthy everywhere have a preference for sports cars. That alone doesn't constitute "driving culture", but a lot of what you're talking about is just compression. The US has much more wide open space than Germany does.

From discussions with my Dutch friends, I know that it is ridiculously easy and inexpensive to get your driving licence here in Australia when compared to the Netherlands.

I imagine that Germany has very similar standards as The Netherlands, and I could imagine that many US states take a more relaxed approach.

Perhaps this is the "driving culture" to which the parent is describing?

Re: Scott Adams: How to Tax the Rich

#295

Post by xentronium »

othermaciej wrote: post #213
alsomike wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My tax plan is to eliminate income tax up to $90,000. After that, income is taxed at 100%. The government awards tax credits for everyone making less than that, so that everyone's salary + tax credits = $90,000. "But wait," you say "How will we incentivize entrepreneurs if they can't earn more money?" For everyone making over $90,000 (approx. 11% of the population), their pretax salary is used to assign them national…

I see that you are trying to get in the spirit of coming up with the "bad version". Communism has been tried before, and it didn't work very well.

Like, say, China?

Re: Scott Adams: How to Tax the Rich

#296

Post by three14 »

benmccann wrote: post #243
izendejas wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of all those that agree with such argument, I'd like to get an answer to these questions: 1) have you traveled to a developing|third-world country? 2) if you haven't, you should. if you have... 2a) what price tag do you put on first-class infrastructure that makes your business run smoothly, not to mention make it safer to deliver? 2b) what price tag do you pay to ensure that you have a well-nourished and healthy wor…

You're arguing that education, infrastructure, and a non-corrupt court system is responsible for this country's success, which may well be true. However, only a tiny amount of spending is on those things. 85% of spending is on social security, the military, and medicaid. We could cut all of those things dramatically without a corresponding decrease in the country's economic output.

Preventing old people and sick people from dying in the streets is just one of those costs you're going to have to pay for, like it or not. Raise Social Security to 68, maybe. Cut it off, though, and you'll find that the country will still pay, one way or another. (Maybe force kids to support their parents - it could be a completely different solution from Social Security, but that money is going to get spent.)

Re: Scott Adams: How to Tax the Rich

#297

Post by encoderer »

xentronium wrote: post #295
othermaciej wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see that you are trying to get in the spirit of coming up with the "bad version". Communism has been tried before, and it didn't work very well.

Like, say, China?

You think the chinese system -- with hundreds of millions of people living in squalor -- works?

Re: Scott Adams: How to Tax the Rich

#298

Post by russss »

windsurfer wrote: post #253
seabee wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe not for you. I did a little calculation at http://listentotaxman.com/ and put in the minimum wage for a 37.5 hour week. If you need to take a few buses to get to work, over 10% of your £190 weekly pay packet gets eaten up on travel. It's definitely cheaper (though less flexible) than running a car on your own, but some of the costs of a car can be spread between more than one person, which isn't the case with p…

London doesn't allow you to tranfer to another bus with a single ticket? Here in Ottawa busses are $3.25 and about to go up, and I think that's more than fair. (I suppose pun intended)

Yeah, London doesn't have transfer tickets. It's annoying.

At any rate, if you take more than 2 buses per day then getting a monthly bus pass/travelcard is cheaper.

Re: Scott Adams: How to Tax the Rich

#299

Post by Unseelie »

jws wrote: post #223
cookiecaper wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And all of that is likely to cost much more than just paying the fine and moving on. It sounds like the rich guy got taken to task for his attempts to weasel out of it in the case you're referring to. He eventually got what he wanted, I guess, which is no points, but it sounds like it cost a lot of money (unless his donation to the pension fund and his lawyer's hourly rate was $25).

The points would have cost much more in future insurance policy premiums. The total cost of the fix is about $250 and you get to keep your "safe driver" rate or whatever the insurance company does for point-free/accident-free drivers.

I find it interesting that the points have only been talked about in terms of the money they can cost you as a direct affect....The fact that they can make you lose your right to drive a car, and the myriad costs that carries, has been completely ignored.
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