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How to run your own mail server (2017)

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Re: How to run your own mail server (2017)

#151

Post by wvh »

wpietri wrote: post #30
dpcan wrote: post #22

Then you realize the true pain of having a near-zero reputation when trying to email anything to people on Gmail, Yahoo, Live, etc, etc. Expect to go to spam even if you have DKIM, SPF, and no relaying. If anyone actually knows the secret to not having your own mail-server's mail go to spam on these bigger systems, please tell, I've Googled it for years with no success.

Agreed! I've been running my own mail server for 20+ years, and I would not recommend that anybody do this on a lark. Deliverability to GMail is a huge problem for me and has been for years. I even asked friends at Google to find out what the story was. All I got back is that the mail group was so careful/paranoid it wouldn't talk to them either. I would long ago have switched over to a vendor, but I use qmail-style…

I run my own mail server for receiving, but send through a commercial provider (Fastmail). I also use user-sub@domain style email addresses. If I have occasionally have to send email from those addresses, I edit the From line in the Fastmail web interface or my email client.

I don't have a problem setting up a full email server, but I don't want to babysit it for just one person using it. I have too many real life obligations these days to try and fix the mess if a problem would arise.

Re: How to run your own mail server (2017)

#152

Post by bbanyc »

q3k wrote: post #23
pharrington wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Writing one yourself is it's own fun project!

Fun is a very curious way of putting it, considering how batshit crazy IMAP is. The rest of the involved email standards are also a huge dumpster fire. I'll let Ricardo Signes do the talking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JENdgiAPD6c

You know the term "opinionated software"? IMAP is an opinionated protocol, designed for clients and servers that work exactly the same way that Mark Crispin's PINE and UW-IMAPd did. Disagree with Crispin about anything, and the protocol will fight you every step of the way.

Mind you, I think PINE may have been the greatest email program ever written, but Crispin was not the easiest person to get along with.

Re: How to run your own mail server (2017)

#153

Post by wpietri »

darkpicnic wrote: post #57
wpietri wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed! I've been running my own mail server for 20+ years, and I would not recommend that anybody do this on a lark. Deliverability to GMail is a huge problem for me and has been for years. I even asked friends at Google to find out what the story was. All I got back is that the mail group was so careful/paranoid it wouldn't talk to them either. I would long ago have switched over to a vendor, but I use qmail-style…

Fastmail allows this, if I’m understanding your need correctly. I’ve been using it for years.

This is true! But when I last talked with them, I couldn't figure out a disaster recovery plan. They had no way for me to back up my users' mail aside from IMAP syncing. Which means I'd have to know my users' passwords. Which seemed slightly more ridiculous than just continuing to host my own mail.

Re: How to run your own mail server (2017)

#154

Post by madez »

jjirsa wrote: post #149
madez wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When someone in a company agrees on a meeting in their office with someone from outside the company, and the visitor arrives at time well-dressed and is rejected by the companies security without any explanation, then who is at fault? It is not the visitor, it is the awful cooperation between the person in the company and their companies security. It is entirely reasonable to show how you've handed your mail to gmail…

GMail being at fault isn't going to make up for a missed invitation (or RSVP) to a special event, or not getting a note of congratulations on an accomplishment, or not getting a message of condolences. Assigning blame is done after the fact to make up for a mistake. Just avoid the mistake.

If one completely disregards political consequences, and generally anything but personal short-term benefit, I agree with your reasoning. Otherwise, I see not how that would be possible. And I think arguing just for short-term practicality is deeply flawed; by that you'd also cooperate with a murdering dictator if it helped you personally.

Re: How to run your own mail server (2017)

#155

Post by wpietri »

mxab wrote: post #80
wpietri wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed! I've been running my own mail server for 20+ years, and I would not recommend that anybody do this on a lark. Deliverability to GMail is a huge problem for me and has been for years. I even asked friends at Google to find out what the story was. All I got back is that the mail group was so careful/paranoid it wouldn't talk to them either. I would long ago have switched over to a vendor, but I use qmail-style…

Check out uberspace.de. They are great and use qmail.

For what it's worth, I don't even need to use qmail. I've been using Postfix for years, which allows this as a configuration option. But I'll check them out for sure.

Re: How to run your own mail server (2017)

#156

Post by wpietri »

wvh wrote: post #151
wpietri wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed! I've been running my own mail server for 20+ years, and I would not recommend that anybody do this on a lark. Deliverability to GMail is a huge problem for me and has been for years. I even asked friends at Google to find out what the story was. All I got back is that the mail group was so careful/paranoid it wouldn't talk to them either. I would long ago have switched over to a vendor, but I use qmail-style…

I run my own mail server for receiving, but send through a commercial provider (Fastmail). I also use user-sub@domain style email addresses. If I have occasionally have to send email from those addresses, I edit the From line in the Fastmail web interface or my email client. I don't have a problem setting up a full email server, but I don't want to babysit it for just one person using it. I have too many real life ob…

Interesting! Maybe I should try doing the outbound via Fastmail or some other provider. I couldn't shut down my mail server entirely, but it might solve my deliverability issue.

Re: How to run your own mail server (2017)

#157

Post by brongondwana »

wpietri wrote: post #153
darkpicnic wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fastmail allows this, if I’m understanding your need correctly. I’ve been using it for years.

This is true! But when I last talked with them, I couldn't figure out a disaster recovery plan. They had no way for me to back up my users' mail aside from IMAP syncing. Which means I'd have to know my users' passwords. Which seemed slightly more ridiculous than just continuing to host my own mail.

Two options:

1. share everyone's mailboxes to an admin user who does the backup via IMAP.

2. create an app-password for each user which can be used to backup that user. This can be done as an admin user on your account.

Neither of them require knowing the user's password - an admin can override into each account unless it's specifically locked down to deny that. It does require a separate app password per account, we don't have a way to create a single password which can view each user's account without them explicitly sharing the folders, but I'm not sure how you reasonably do anything else without it being a backdoor behind all the privacy settings on each account.

Re: How to run your own mail server (2017)

#158

Post by femto »

BenjiWiebe wrote: post #54
wpietri wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed! I've been running my own mail server for 20+ years, and I would not recommend that anybody do this on a lark. Deliverability to GMail is a huge problem for me and has been for years. I even asked friends at Google to find out what the story was. All I got back is that the mail group was so careful/paranoid it wouldn't talk to them either. I would long ago have switched over to a vendor, but I use qmail-style…

Funny. I'm somewhat new to the game but my email server has had very few problems delivering anywhere (hosting a small business' email, and personal email for the employees.) I've got spf, dkim, and dmarc. I use tls on everything. Got a static ip (linode) with rdns. I've never had a problem delivering to gmail. For a while i had problems delivering to Hotmail/outlook, but participating in some sort of junk mail repor…

Having run my own server for 20 years, my experience is also that it is relatively hassle free. I also run my own DNS and have a static IP, which might help with keeping email related DNS records up-to-date.

Running the server is generally "set and forget". Every few years an issue might pop up that requires attention. These issues are generally due to a tightening of other servers' requirements rather than an actual technical issue. When such things do occur, symptoms are an occasional email rejection, and a bit of digging reveals the cause and fixing the cause returns things to normal. I've never had a wholesale rejection of mail from my server

For example, when SPF and DKIM came in, I had to add those records to my DNS. When Let's Encrypt came on-line I proactively added TLS to the server. A number of years ago lack of a Reverse DNS record got me on a blacklist for a short time. That was fixed by contacting the IP address issuer (my ISP) and getting them to add a reverse DNS record. Just make sure the reverse DNS hostname matches the hostname that your email server uses in its HELO messages. A week or so later I was automatically off the blacklist and the few rejections went away. I've never bothered with DMARC. This is the sum total of my experience with running the server.

At times there have been physical problems with the server or network outages with my ISP, but I discount these on the basis that it is my decision to run a server on a desktop PC in my house rather than in a data centre. Easily fixed if I wanted to throw money at it.

Re: How to run your own mail server (2017)

#159

Post by wpietri »

pera wrote: post #74
wpietri wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed! I've been running my own mail server for 20+ years, and I would not recommend that anybody do this on a lark. Deliverability to GMail is a huge problem for me and has been for years. I even asked friends at Google to find out what the story was. All I got back is that the mail group was so careful/paranoid it wouldn't talk to them either. I would long ago have switched over to a vendor, but I use qmail-style…

I don't have any problems with Gmail, but there is no way to know why :) As far as I know the most important factor for deliverability is your IP address: my /24 have been clean for many years because the network operator actually respond to abuse@ reports. If you have problems my first advice (aside from checking that SPF+DKIM+DMARC+PTR+banner+etc... are OK) would be to find a better ISP.

This is a physical server (at Datacate [1] in Santa Clara), so switching ISPs is not a small undertaking, especially given that I'm only using 1U of space. Last I looked the netblock reputation seemed fine, so I'd only be inclined to switch if I had clear evidence that was the real problem.

[1] in this block if it matters: https://rdap.arin.net/registry/ip/198.167.232.0

Re: How to run your own mail server (2017)

#160

Post by wpietri »

colonwqbang wrote: post #51
wpietri wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed! I've been running my own mail server for 20+ years, and I would not recommend that anybody do this on a lark. Deliverability to GMail is a huge problem for me and has been for years. I even asked friends at Google to find out what the story was. All I got back is that the mail group was so careful/paranoid it wouldn't talk to them either. I would long ago have switched over to a vendor, but I use qmail-style…

I don't see why sub-addresses would be a problem with regards to sending mail. Isn't it wholly up to the receiver to interpret the username part of the address (or not)?

It's not. It's a problem for me just paying somebody to host my mail entirely, as most vendors don't support it.
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