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Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

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Re: Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

#71

Post by larnmar »

Cookingboy wrote: post #49
larnmar wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should read “Chinese Government”, not China, too. The Chinese government was not elected by the Chinese, is not in any sense a legitimate representative of the Chinese, and has no more right to rule over China than I do. Conflating criticism of the CCP with criticism of the country that they illegitimately rule is CCP propaganda techniques 101.

What is legitimacy? A government's job is to serve as many of its people as much as possible for as long as possible, so playing devil's advocate, why isn't the legitimacy of a government judged by how good it's doing its job vs. how it came into power? Historically speaking there have been plenty of prosperous societies that was ruled by "illegitimate" governments (and I'm not even saying China is one), and plenty o…

Legitimacy comes from having been elected. An unelected Government is, as they say, just a group of thugs who just happen to be in control of a capital city.

Within that definition there’s certainly some ambiguity as to what counts as a “good enough” election to confer legitimacy. Edge cases would be things like Singapore, Russia or Hitler’s Germany... but Communist China is not close to an edge case.

Re: Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

#72

Post by Cookingboy »

SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #69
Cookingboy wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But once a government starts throwing peaceful protestors into concentration camps I think we can all agree that it has crossed the line, right? Absolutely. But if you are referring to what's happening in HK, debate on evidence of concentration camp aside, lately many of the protestors have been anything but "peaceful".

> lately many of the protestors have been anything but "peaceful". That does tend to happen when peaceful protests get violently suppressed. It's extremely difficult to not defend yourself against violence.

Oh, please tell me how is burning down businesses or smashing public transportation or vandalize government buildings "defend yourself against violence".

Re: Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

#75

Post by paganel »

eznoonze wrote: post #41
hangonhn wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

90 million according to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_China It's hard to assume that the CCP doesn't have the mandate of the people. We just don't know one way or another since there are no free elections.

Chinese people join the CCP not because they identify with the communist ideals. They join because it gives access to a lot of resources and power that is otherwise unavailable to outsiders. It is essentially a gangster of national proportion, and behaves exactly like one, and they own the army.

Yeah, I know that, my mom joined the Romanian Communist Party in the early ‘80s for the same thing (so that she could more easily get food for young me), but that doesn’t make that entire generation less to blame as a whole.

Re: Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

#76

Post by idoh »

Cookingboy wrote: post #64
idoh wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair point, it is hard to draw an exact line. But once a government starts throwing peaceful protestors into concentration camps I think we can all agree that it has crossed the line, right?

>But once a government starts throwing peaceful protestors into concentration camps I think we can all agree that it has crossed the line, right? Absolutely. But if you are referring to what's happening in HK, debate on evidence of concentration camp aside, lately many of the protestors have been anything but "peaceful".

There's no way to really know what's going on, the CCP is acting in secret. Maybe they are disappearing peaceful protestors, maybe they are disappearing violent thugs. Once a government starts to do that (secretly suppressing, however justified), then they have also crossed a line of legitimacy.

Re: Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

#77

Post by Apocryphon »

thorwasdfasdf wrote: post #67
hangonhn wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on. That's patently not true. Seriously. I'm born Chinese and my family is Chinese. We were never "trained". I'm highly critical of the Chinese government (though I left fairly young) as are some members of my family. Some of them were born and raised there. Come on. Stop it with the stereotypes. People are complicated and have multitudes. "People are tauhgt to think of themselves as completely the same as their…

I've always noticed: Even if a chinese person is critical of the chinese gov they will never say that when speaking to a non-chinese (unless it's your husband/close friend), nor speak of it out loud.

Yeah, why don't you ask people from Hong Kong- not to mention Tibet or Xinjiang.

Re: Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

#78

Post by deepVoid »

throwGuardian wrote: post #5

Puzzle me this - as an employee in the US, for a company paying well above market for your labor, with generous perks and the freedom to speak out against the employer (which is likely absent in China), the response of the Chinese workforce seems rather paradoxical - criticising an accommodating work environment, which, mind you, is only possible because of freedom of speech Or, the press is out to make a mountain of…

Freedom to speak out against the employer? There are definitely consequences. It can apparently get you fired quickly [1][2][3][4].

[1] https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qvgn9q/do-not-discuss-the...

[2] https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/15/facebook-employee-i-was-fire...

[3] https://digg.com/video/qin-chen-facebook-employee-suicide

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google%27s_Ideological_Echo_Ch...

Re: Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

#79

Post by buzzerbetrayed »

mistersquid wrote: post #24
throwGuardian wrote: post #5

Puzzle me this - as an employee in the US, for a company paying well above market for your labor, with generous perks and the freedom to speak out against the employer (which is likely absent in China), the response of the Chinese workforce seems rather paradoxical - criticising an accommodating work environment, which, mind you, is only possible because of freedom of speech Or, the press is out to make a mountain of…

> the response of the Chinese workforce seems rather paradoxical - criticising an accommodatung work environment, which, mind you, is only possible because of freedom of speech You’re questioning, and implicitly criticizing, these workers for exercising their access to free speech, for complaining about an aspect of their employer’s position about their country of origin. Such an implicit critique undermines the foun…

> You’re questioning, and implicitly criticizing, these workers for exercising their access to free speech, for complaining about an aspect of their employer’s position about their country of origin

Why is this relevant? By that definition, any time you criticize anything someone says you are criticizing them for using free speech.

There is a big difference between “I disagree with what you’re saying” and “you shouldn’t be allowed to say it”. As far as I can tell, he isn’t even hinting at the latter.

Re: Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

#80

Post by mtnGoat »

taobility wrote: post #39
umvi wrote: post #7

Title should read: "Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils (Chinese) Facebook Employees" At any rate, I applaud Zuckerberg for actually having a spine when it comes to China, unlike Tim Cook.

Have you heard the news that Mark has learnt Chinese very hard, and even placed Xi's book at his office desk trying to please the visited Chinese officials? He didn't have any spine, and what he's doing right now just because he failed so have to change the strategy.

Do you have a source for this? your past comments are very pro Chinese and also reference "other news" without citation.

Trying hard to prop up the motherland in the public eye?

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