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MacBook Pro 16" 2019 Teardown

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Re: MacBook Pro 16" 2019 Teardown

#481

Post by _ph_ »

kmlx wrote: post #375
GrayShade wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Repairs are going to be expensive if you need to get a new motherboard to replace a single component.

it all depends on second hand mac component prices. from my knowledge apple changes the casing and motherboard for almost every mac hardware update. thus making components more expensive (lower runs) and the re-sell value high. so for apple to allow replacing parts the backlash from a reduced re-sell price would need to be lower than the potential new avenues of 3rd party components and repairs.

No, the resale value isn't high because they are difficult to repair. It would be the other way around. Currently, I wouldn't pay much for any Mac with a butterfly keyboard, as Apple only warrants it for 4 years and after that the machine is totalled.

Re: MacBook Pro 16" 2019 Teardown

#482

Post by dkonofalski »

_ph_ wrote: post #480
dkonofalski wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are repairable, just not at their stores. They do swaps at the stores and send out the old parts to be disassembled and remanufactured into warranty exchange parts. They are just as environmentally friendly as they present themselves.

Well, as I wrote, a technician should be able to repair it and that does not mean sending the device around for weeks. Availability of a device is an important thing if you use it for your work. Also, many "repairs" Apple offers are priced such, that quite often the device is totalled. A broken keyboard should cost $100, not >$600. A broken screen cable shouldn't cost > $800. A dead SSD should cost what an SSD does c…

>a technician should be able to repair it

Most people don't care one way or the other as long as they end up with a functioning machine. They don't care about how the wheels end up getting turned as long as they get turned. If anything, replacing a larger component rather than diagnosing and fixing individual components should be faster. If someone has to solder or work on transistors, your repair could definitely take weeks and that time only goes up with the number of repairs necessary for all customers.

>If you throw away a machine

If you throw away a machine, that's on you. Apple, and most other PC manufacturers, offer some kind of machine recycling. That process includes recycling the raw materials and disassembling and reusing components. Unless we're talking about machines that are 7+ years, those components can still be used for warranty repairs and other assemblies. It's exactly why Apple stops servicing devices that are that old and instead only offers recycling for them. When the warranty claims go down, the parts needed go down.

Re: MacBook Pro 16" 2019 Teardown

#483

Post by jammygit »

nickflood wrote: post #390
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that alternatives are somehow better Microsoft just released Surface X with a door on the back for replacing the drive. The device is 0.28 inches thick. Thinkpad X1 Carbon and Dell XPS both have replaceable drives. From opening the case. If anything I'm struggling to find another laptop maker who solders the drives to the boards like Apple does... Drive failure isn't a possibility, it's a certainty and soldering th…

Moreover, XPSs have a screwed-in battery and replaceable keyboard, which would make restoring and reusing the laptop much more viable. With macbook, if you keyboard is broken, you trash half of the laptop, including the battery.

I didn’t know that

Re: MacBook Pro 16" 2019 Teardown

#484

Post by _ph_ »

dkonofalski wrote: post #482
_ph_ wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, as I wrote, a technician should be able to repair it and that does not mean sending the device around for weeks. Availability of a device is an important thing if you use it for your work. Also, many "repairs" Apple offers are priced such, that quite often the device is totalled. A broken keyboard should cost $100, not >$600. A broken screen cable shouldn't cost > $800. A dead SSD should cost what an SSD does c…

>a technician should be able to repair it Most people don't care one way or the other as long as they end up with a functioning machine. They don't care about how the wheels end up getting turned as long as they get turned. If anything, replacing a larger component rather than diagnosing and fixing individual components should be faster. If someone has to solder or work on transistors, your repair could definitely ta…

Don't be silly. I am not talking about soldering or "work on transistors". I am talking about exchanging a keyboard, battery, SSD. That are tasks that every IT guy can do in minutest on most laptops. Most people will care about the difference between an hour and several days to several weeks of repair time. Any professional user certainly will.

And if people don't care about the time, they do care about the cost. It makes a difference whether a broken keyboard costs $100 or $600 to repair. In the latter case, the machine often is totalled. And then it doesn't matter how nicely you recycle the aluminium, the machine could have been used for many more years, if it could have been repaired.

Or asked the other way around: if Apple can so nicely reuse the parts, why do they charge more than the cost for the broken part? If they would replace broken keyboards for $100, few would ask, how they do it. Why don't they fix a broken SSD for $200?

Re: MacBook Pro 16" 2019 Teardown

#485

Post by lostgame »

visarga wrote: post #264
dannyw wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instability allows you to know exactly where your fingertip is positioned once you know it.

Having the keycaps slightly curved inside allows for better finger positioning.

I miss the 2004-2007 PowerBook / OG MacBook Pro keyboard. Curved keys, great feeling on depression, this was paradise for me.

Re: MacBook Pro 16" 2019 Teardown

#486

Post by nickflood »

jammygit wrote: post #483
nickflood wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moreover, XPSs have a screwed-in battery and replaceable keyboard, which would make restoring and reusing the laptop much more viable. With macbook, if you keyboard is broken, you trash half of the laptop, including the battery.

I didn’t know that

Nothing in the XPS 15 is glued in place. I'm literally using a laptop that has a screen from 9550 (4 years old), battery from 9560 (3 years old), motherboard from 9570 (2 years old) and other parts that I've accumulated randomly while upgrading my laptop from 9550 to 9560 to 9570.

And the parts that I wasn't using after the upgrade I've all sold to other people who had their mobo or battery fail. Nothing was wasted.

All this and I've got a pretty slick looking powerful laptop!

Re: MacBook Pro 16" 2019 Teardown

#487

Post by dkonofalski »

_ph_ wrote: post #484
dkonofalski wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>a technician should be able to repair it Most people don't care one way or the other as long as they end up with a functioning machine. They don't care about how the wheels end up getting turned as long as they get turned. If anything, replacing a larger component rather than diagnosing and fixing individual components should be faster. If someone has to solder or work on transistors, your repair could definitely ta…

Don't be silly. I am not talking about soldering or "work on transistors". I am talking about exchanging a keyboard, battery, SSD. That are tasks that every IT guy can do in minutest on most laptops. Most people will care about the difference between an hour and several days to several weeks of repair time. Any professional user certainly will. And if people don't care about the time, they do care about the cost. It…

>I am talking about exchanging a keyboard, battery, SSD

None of those things are as simple as you're making them out to be in the form/spec of the Macbook.

>And if people don't care about the time, they do care about the cost.

Apparently not as Apple has the highest customer service scores in the entire computing industry by a large margin. People care about having working computers and, by and large, people who buy Apple computers buy them knowing that out of warranty repairs may be expensive.

>why do they charge more than the cost for the broken part?

Because it's costly to recycle those parts. You can be cheap or you can be sustainable. Right now, you can't really be both.

Re: MacBook Pro 16" 2019 Teardown

#488

Post by perrylaj »

kkarakk wrote: post #441
majewsky wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's a good replacement for a casual user who wants to clean their electronics? (Honest question.)

There is quite literally no option out there that makes sense economically or logically - The impact to the environment is negligible. You aren't the one shifting the earth's atmosphere, it's greenhouse gases from the millions of cars,from industry and deforestation. Everyone could start smoking cigarettes and spraying aerosol into their laptop once a day and you wouldn't make a dent in the ozone comparatively

Uh, that's not true at all. CFC's that most people are concerned with emitting aren't necessarily greenhouse gases, and the greenhouse contribution is not really a primary concern with them.

The primary concern is that many of them are catalysts with very very long active lifespans. As a catalyst (not a consumable reactant), a single CFC molecule is capable of destroying hundreds of thousands of ozone molecules in the upper atmosphere (or more). It's the catalytic nature that makes these things problematic and accumulative even in small amounts. The accumulation of these long-lived gasses would be measurable if everyone were blasting their laptop once a day, which is precisely why a number of them are banned completely. The ones generally used now are relatively better, but there is still plenty of reason to avoid emitting them if possible.

Cigarette smoke isn't comparable when it comes to environmental concern, nor are most common combustion byproducts. Those definitely cause concern for different reasons, but aren't directly comparable to environmental concerns raised by CFCs.

Re: MacBook Pro 16" 2019 Teardown

#489

Post by _ph_ »

dkonofalski wrote: post #487
_ph_ wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't be silly. I am not talking about soldering or "work on transistors". I am talking about exchanging a keyboard, battery, SSD. That are tasks that every IT guy can do in minutest on most laptops. Most people will care about the difference between an hour and several days to several weeks of repair time. Any professional user certainly will. And if people don't care about the time, they do care about the cost. It…

>I am talking about exchanging a keyboard, battery, SSD None of those things are as simple as you're making them out to be in the form/spec of the Macbook. >And if people don't care about the time, they do care about the cost. Apparently not as Apple has the highest customer service scores in the entire computing industry by a large margin. People care about having working computers and, by and large, people who buy…

>I am talking about exchanging a keyboard, battery, SSD

None of those things are as simple as you're making them out to be in the form/spec of the Macbook.

The things aren't as difficult as you make them. There are plenty of devices which have reasonable repairablity without being larger than the MacBook.

>And if people don't care about the time, they do care about the cost.

Apparently not as Apple has the highest customer service scores in the entire computing industry by a large margin. People care about having working computers and, by and large, people who buy Apple computers buy them knowing that out of warranty repairs may be expensive.

Most people who buy Apple computers don't know about the costs of out-of-warranty repairs. It will be interesting to see how big the shitstorm will be once people have to throw away their butterfly-keyboard machines becaus thy can't typ th lttr "E".

>why do they charge more than the cost for the broken part?

Because it's costly to recycle those parts. You can be cheap or you can be sustainable. Right now, you can't really be both.

Yeah, as if it would cost $500 to recyle a pound of aluminium. They do it because they have to machine a new part and want to push the money on the customer. But with a proper design, you wouldn't have to throw away large parts of your laptop for minor repairs.

Re: MacBook Pro 16" 2019 Teardown

#490

Post by blacksmith_tb »

InitialLastName wrote: post #137
outworlder wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully you'll have Apple care, which will allow you to replace the whole machine without paying for an entirely new one. If you need it for a living, it's a no brainer. Is it malfunctioning? Take it to an Apple store, grab a brand new device, restore it from Time Machine and resume where you left off. You could be back up and running in a couple of hours as if nothing had happened. You could potentially waste a lo…

That's also a reason to make it less repairable. If you can replace parts with aftermarket parts, the gray area of applecare support is much bigger. People who are using these computers "professionally" mostly don't want to fiddle with modifying them. They want a computer that will be reliable, and whose failure will cost them the smallest work interruption.

Fair, though it doesn't take a very cynical mind to also see that there's a benefit to Apple if I can't double my ram in a couple of years, and instead have to buy a new machine...
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