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There Is No Cure for Burnout

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Re: There Is No Cure for Burnout

#71

Post by RickS »

mettamage wrote: post #34
RickS wrote: post #21

My experience is that there is. I tend to be really intense about my job, and as a result I've left almost all of my jobs due to burnout, usually related to frustration that my dept isn't prioritizing what I feel is important to be successful, and that my time isn't well spent. I recently went through this at my current gig, despite having good pay, good manager, and as close to a non-toxic environment as I think is…

This is an amazing example for the “autonomy” part of self-determination theory. And it shows how intrinsic motivation relates to mental health. It also shows to some extent “relatedness” and “competence” part of SDT. Other than that this post shows a potential issue that many people with burnout face: adult conflict. Without conflict one’s course of action is to change themselves. With conflict, one can change their…

It wasn't mentioned in my post, but the "relatedness" aspect was definitely a big component. I felt like I was letting myself down by not working on what's important to me, but I felt like I was letting the team down by being ineffective in my regular "keep the lights on" role, and so _everyone_ was being disappointed. I disliked the work, but I still like my team, and didn't want to be responsible for making their jobs harder. One of the goals here was to remove that conflict of interest.

SDT is interesting – I hadn't read anything about this before, so thanks for the keyword.

Re: There Is No Cure for Burnout

#72

Post by UglyToad »

falcolas wrote: post #68
UglyToad wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a white man I feel you're being extremely sensitive here. You've taken a small part of the article seemingly out of context. The author is talking about well meaning but ultimately useless advice from those with the financial means to support themselves indefinitely while they travel or relax. While a generalisation, the ability to build up a cushion of 'fuck you money' tends to correlate with being from a generat…

> the ability to build up a cushion of 'fuck you money' tends to correlate with being from a generation with higher job security With all due respect - this stability comes from age, not generation. I have a stable life now. As someone born in the late 70's, I have a house, a stable job, and a 401k. But I didn't have these things at 20 - I was fighting to keep my head above water from month to month after coming off…

That's a fair point and a flaw in my response.

It's more based off the UK too where job security was higher and previously unemployment benefit was more generous and more widely available. There's still a difference here, from the UK the common mass redundancies of tech in the US seem bizzare and likely to increase work related stress.

I still think the author is using "older white male" shorthand to point out that we need to structure society and the economy in a way that protects all people from burnout and provides access to the tools and treatment to recover from it to all. Rather than assuming all people are sufficiently well off to take 6 months to do a Jack Dorsey style Buddhist retreat. I'd hope that the readers are capable of enough nuance to understand that what is meant is an elite rather than react to perceived racism, ageism, sexism etc. It just seems like the mirror of widely derided sensitivity of those on the left but even more bizarre because it claims racism against a group holding power (again in the UK, US, Australia, Canada, most of Europe, excluding the Roma, whoever else, but having to caveat to this extent swiftly makes language unworkable)

Re: There Is No Cure for Burnout

#74

Post by eigenvalue »

The author seems to me to be blaming society and her former employer for her own failings. Perhaps if she were smarter about how she performed her job duties she wouldn't be so overwhelmed, unable to do even basic chores like buying groceries or going to the gym. And if it really was the fault of her unreasonable employer/boss, she could have applied to other jobs. Or maybe she should find a different industry, or develop useful skills that are in enough demand in the economy for her to dictate a better work environment. By blaming everything and everyone but herself, she has set herself up to fail. It's not the patriarchy or capitalism that is the cause of her issues-- it's her own bad choices and even worse ways of grappling with the fallout of her bad decisions.

Re: There Is No Cure for Burnout

#75

Post by madaxe_again »

1996 wrote: post #60
madaxe_again wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your potential to do what? Trade happiness for money? Because that’s how this works. We’re totally sold on the idea that more money means a better life. More. More. Always more. Always wanting. Always lacking. Happiness isn’t in more. It’s in everything. You just have to have the time to find it - and time is the crux. You only live once; time is your most precious and finite commodity. Each day that passes is irrevo…

No prospect, no future. You seem to be waiting for death.

No, I’m living life. If you measure your entire worth through your position in a corporate hierarchy, sure, no future.

Life isn’t about how much stuff you have, but that’s for you to find out - most only discover this just before they die, if ever.

Re: There Is No Cure for Burnout

#76

Post by CalRobert »

madaxe_again wrote: post #10
HNLurker2 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But preventative means limit my potential

Your potential to do what? Trade happiness for money? Because that’s how this works. We’re totally sold on the idea that more money means a better life. More. More. Always more. Always wanting. Always lacking. Happiness isn’t in more. It’s in everything. You just have to have the time to find it - and time is the crux. You only live once; time is your most precious and finite commodity. Each day that passes is irrevo…

You've expressed a nagging feeling I've had for years beautifully here.

"Work hard and maximize your potential for... maybe someday having the luxury of time?" Nevermind that there's a cost to every hour spent working and it grows and grows with time. How many Sunday afternoons have you got left in your life? maybe 2800 if you're thirty? How many Sunday afternoons with a strong body? How many with your partner or kids? Do you want to trade those to answer some random bullshit on Slack? Is your job increasing net happiness, at least indirectly, or is it just pointless bullshit?

I think the idea is gaining traction - MrMoneyMoustache, etc. are popular but a huge amount of the things we're supposed to derive meaning from are just scaffolding around emptiness.

We live like gods compared to a few centuries ago, maybe we should take the time to enjoy it.

Re: There Is No Cure for Burnout

#77

Post by CalRobert »

1996 wrote: post #60
madaxe_again wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your potential to do what? Trade happiness for money? Because that’s how this works. We’re totally sold on the idea that more money means a better life. More. More. Always more. Always wanting. Always lacking. Happiness isn’t in more. It’s in everything. You just have to have the time to find it - and time is the crux. You only live once; time is your most precious and finite commodity. Each day that passes is irrevo…

No prospect, no future. You seem to be waiting for death.

As are you - so what are you doing while waiting?

Re: There Is No Cure for Burnout

#78

Post by [deleted] »

UglyToad wrote: post #72
falcolas wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the ability to build up a cushion of 'fuck you money' tends to correlate with being from a generation with higher job security With all due respect - this stability comes from age, not generation. I have a stable life now. As someone born in the late 70's, I have a house, a stable job, and a 401k. But I didn't have these things at 20 - I was fighting to keep my head above water from month to month after coming off…

That's a fair point and a flaw in my response. It's more based off the UK too where job security was higher and previously unemployment benefit was more generous and more widely available. There's still a difference here, from the UK the common mass redundancies of tech in the US seem bizzare and likely to increase work related stress. I still think the author is using "older white male" shorthand to point out that w…

[deleted]

Re: There Is No Cure for Burnout

#79

Post by [deleted] »

eigenvalue wrote: post #74

The author seems to me to be blaming society and her former employer for her own failings. Perhaps if she were smarter about how she performed her job duties she wouldn't be so overwhelmed, unable to do even basic chores like buying groceries or going to the gym. And if it really was the fault of her unreasonable employer/boss, she could have applied to other jobs. Or maybe she should find a different industry, or de…

[deleted]

Re: There Is No Cure for Burnout

#80

Post by AstralStorm »

eigenvalue wrote: post #74

The author seems to me to be blaming society and her former employer for her own failings. Perhaps if she were smarter about how she performed her job duties she wouldn't be so overwhelmed, unable to do even basic chores like buying groceries or going to the gym. And if it really was the fault of her unreasonable employer/boss, she could have applied to other jobs. Or maybe she should find a different industry, or de…

Nice example of prevalent victim blaming. The mentally ill person expected to cure themselves? Really? If you consider her to be setting herself for failure, why did nobody help her before it was too late?

There are very strong social pressures on staying working. Be the hero to buck them, see what your spouse thinks if you have one. Or friends - suddenly you're considered a loser.

And the key thing is that switching jobs requires patience and actual work to not land in the same or worse hole. Even then, when truly exhausted, you might be unable to hold on in the new place.

Develop useful skills? Taking say up to six years with what money and energy? Then getting hired while being older this many years, quite a challenge.

What's your solution? "Stiff upper lip?" Boundless forced optimism? Job hopping? Just being rich? Having actual friends? (but not everyone is so lucky)

Even psychologists have problems dealing with this thing.

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