So sick seeing how UK judges listen to US.
?
They were responding to a valid extradition request by Sweden. How does the US factor in here?
Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation
121–130 of 784 posts
Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
He chose conditions that were arguably worse in most respects but one (access to communication/internet) than a Swedish prison. Prison sentences in Sweden are hardly ever longer than his stay in the embassy, except for the most heinous crimes. His claim all along was that he seek refuge in the embassy were because he feared US extradition. Those claims were ridiculed by his opponents. They are now incontrovertibly ve…
>He chose conditions that were arguably worse in most respects but one (access to communication/internet) than a Swedish prison. Are Nordic prisoners allowed to walk out the front door wheneever they choose? Last time I checked, prison required removing freedom. You have to 'escape' prison, not walk out the front door. Just saying, this bad rationalization only works on people biased towards Julian and looking to exc…
> Are Nordic prisoners allowed to walk out the front door wheneever they choose?
Swedish prisons are a lot better than Embassy of Ecuador in London, if you have to live recluded, at least chose the best.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/telegraph-view/11256813/...
> Here's the killer point: if Nordic prisons are better, why didn't Julian stay there instead?
We should ask him.
Maybe because he's paranoid?
Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation
#123Title should really be 'US takes hand out of Swedish puppet now that its free to extradite Assange' The take away here is stay anonymous when whistle blowing or handling leaks. Don't talk to anyone, don't say anything just take a USB stick to an Internet cafe while disguised and host a torrent. Then email the press the magnet link using a throw away email service.
Er, Assange himself was the press, here. Chelsea Manning was the anonymous whistleblower who tried to keep her identity safe until Adrian Lamo (may God have mercy on his soul, because I sure won't) reported her to US authorities.
>Adrian Lamo
The same Adrian Lamo who told Chelsea Manning that he'd treat what she told him as a confession (he was an ordained minister and the implication was that he'd never tell anybody) to gain her trust[1].
Let's not forget Kevin Poulsen's complicity in this.
The hacker community is not your friend, and you need to assume that members will sell you out for glory or to save their own asses.
I've never celebrated the death of anybody, but I did feel the world was a better place after Adrian Lamo died.
[1] https://boingboing.net/2010/06/19/wikileaks-a-somewhat.html
Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ah, the old “he was free to leave anytime” argument. No. He wasn’t. Yes, technically, he was free to leave, but arguing that is ignoring the fact that leaving would mean jail. It’s victim blaming. Would you say a victim of Stockholm Syndrome is “free to leave at any time”? No, because that’s a ridiculous argument. Would you say Snowden is “free to leave [Russia] at any time”? No! So why is it an acceptable argument w…
But that line of thinking doesn’t make sense to me … Just for the sake of argument, say you are a bank robber who successfully barricaded yourself somewhere (really uncomfortable) where police cannot reach you. You are then free to leave at any time, but would be arrested as soon as you did. Would you really argue that police would have to drop the case to avoid torturing you? Your line of thinking seems to presuppos…
I’m not arguing that the case is unjust. I’m refuting the argument that he was free to leave at any time. I see where the two cross, so I’ll argue the former here:
He’s wanted because he embarrassed the United States government. Espionage laws are a horrible attack on free speech and freedom of the press and I’m appalled the Supreme Court previously ruled they’re constitutional.
Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
Er, Assange himself was the press, here. Chelsea Manning was the anonymous whistleblower who tried to keep her identity safe until Adrian Lamo (may God have mercy on his soul, because I sure won't) reported her to US authorities.
I don't want to defend Lamo, but he surely got pressure from the government and some kind of deal.
That makes it worse, not better. Take the punishment for the shit you did and say nothing about what someone else did if what they did saved lives and served the public good.
Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
If I recall the evidence was always pretty weak. I don’t have time to find the news article from back then, but it was “sexual assault” because he didn’t wear a condom and at the time the woman (perhaps plural) didn’t want to really participate. Could be wrong though... Does anyone have some news from back then?
I do think it's likely that, assault or not, Assange behaved in an unaceptable way toward these women. He has often been quoted mentioning that he has children all over the world with various women. Surreptitiously removing a condom would be in character. If true, his attitude reminds me of Jeff Epstein's plan to "seed the human race with his DNA" by impregnanting a bunch of women on a ranch he owned. These people se…
It would not matter one fuck were he a murdering, misogynist, insert horrible personality types here. The discussion is not about his personal attractiveness, but a selection of a few of his actions relating to wikileaks. You know nothing about him raping, I know nothing about him raping, but we all know the US government murdered people, covered it up and all we're stuck here talking about is raping.
This isn't Richard Stallman 2.0. Assange told you something that nobody denies is true. He's not head of GNU, let the rape allegations be dealt with by the appropriate people. Your job as somebody talking about Assange is to say, "yea, that shit he told us was terrible, something should be done." Not "he might take his fucking condoms off".
Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
He chose conditions that were arguably worse in most respects but one (access to communication/internet) than a Swedish prison. Prison sentences in Sweden are hardly ever longer than his stay in the embassy, except for the most heinous crimes. His claim all along was that he seek refuge in the embassy were because he feared US extradition. Those claims were ridiculed by his opponents. They are now incontrovertibly ve…
>He chose conditions that were arguably worse in most respects but one (access to communication/internet) than a Swedish prison. Are Nordic prisoners allowed to walk out the front door wheneever they choose? Last time I checked, prison required removing freedom. You have to 'escape' prison, not walk out the front door. Just saying, this bad rationalization only works on people biased towards Julian and looking to exc…
> Here's the killer point: if Nordic prisons are better, why didn't Julian stay there instead?
Because he was worried about the US finding some flimsy justification to extradite him (an Australian citizen) and prosecute him locally. Fears which, apparently, were justified.
Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Melzer was accompanied during his prison visit on 9 May by two medical experts specialised in examining potential victims of torture and other ill-treatment." Are you saying we should take your word over theirs?
He could leave the embassy at any time, which is where the purported damage was done. He is now in prison, where he cannot leave it any time. Melzer visited him recently in prison, thus your quote. It seems pretty clear. The parent may be lacking in nuance for his situation, but it is correct.
They were waiting in front of the embassy 24/7. We can now see that he was exactly right in his prediction of what would happen if he left, and how.
He's been held in solitary confinement, itself already widely regarded as torture.
Saying "he could have left" in this situation, after being shown exactly how that would have/did go down, is like camping out in front of your ex-girlfriend's house with a baseball bat, then telling the officer you didn't beat her and thus did nothing wrong. Except the whole world can see you totally did beat her when she finally left the house.
Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
If I recall the evidence was always pretty weak. I don’t have time to find the news article from back then, but it was “sexual assault” because he didn’t wear a condom and at the time the woman (perhaps plural) didn’t want to really participate. Could be wrong though... Does anyone have some news from back then?
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/julian-ass... > Assange, who was aware that it was the expressed wish of the injured party and a prerequisite of sexual intercourse that a condom be used, consummated unprotected sexual intercourse with her without her knowledge. > Assange deliberately consummated sexual intercourse with her by improperly exploiting that she, due to sleep, was in a helpless state. It…
These are just the original accusations, this is not a summary of established facts.
Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation
#130It's not torture if you can leave at any time. He wasn't being held in the embassy, he was hiding there.
Ah, the old “he was free to leave anytime” argument. No. He wasn’t. Yes, technically, he was free to leave, but arguing that is ignoring the fact that leaving would mean jail. It’s victim blaming. Would you say a victim of Stockholm Syndrome is “free to leave at any time”? No, because that’s a ridiculous argument. Would you say Snowden is “free to leave [Russia] at any time”? No! So why is it an acceptable argument w…
Okay, but then any criminal on the lamb is being tortured? If someone jumps bail, we should just leave them alone, so we don't traumatize then? All criminals are being tortured (these same things happen in prison). I don't agree with how all this was handled, but I think we're being a bit rediculous here.