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Empathic concern does not reduce partisan animosity: study

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Re: Empathic concern does not reduce partisan animosity: study

#91
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I'm saying is that what you describe is the straw man caricature of the right that lefties like to dismantle, not how an actual right-of-center person would describe their political motivations. Take gay marriage. The left likes to lampoon the right for claiming that "homosexuality is against our values" or some such homophobic nonsense. But that's not why republicans are against gay marriage--because you might…

If they are against the government defining marriage, then why do they want to define marriage as being between a man and a woman? For example, the California proposition 8 ballot measure read: "only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California." [1] So please explain how this is not defining marriage and how it is supportive of gay marriage rather than in opposition to it. [1] https://en.m…

Prop 8 was a ballot initiative, started by and primarily funded by religious groups. It's not a "republican" thing.

It was supported by some prominent republicans because of the word "marriage," and for political reasons[0]. Note that to religious conservative thinkers the word "marriage" has deep religious meaning, and to regulate marriage is to encroach on the separation of church and state. This is why many republicans are okay with "civil unions" but have such strong opinions over the word "marriage."

Personally I voted NO on Prop 8, fwiw.

[0] Political science is the pinnacle of complexity in human society. But a lot of it can be understood as virtue signaling combined with pandering to the lowest common denominator and their short attention spans, combined with the destabilizing effects of primary-issue voters. So while there is a primary distinction between the left- and right- political spectrum which has to do with the role of government, there's also a bunch of tag-along, hot-button issues which politicians pay lip service to in order to get elected by the ignorant majority, but don't really influence legislation to large degree. Things like gay marriage, abortion rights, and climate change fall in these categories, sadly.

Which is to say, you'll find conservative think-tanks putting out policy papers justifying the status quo for marriage rights on the grounds that I mentioned. But then some religious fanatics get something like California's Prop 8 on the ballot and republican politicians feel they have to endorse it if they want to get re-elected, which they do. But in reality they're quite happy with the "civil union" compromise because it solves the fundamental civil rights issue without infringing on the religious definition of marriage.

Re: Empathic concern does not reduce partisan animosity: study

#92
post #39

> These high-empathy students were also more likely to be amused by reports that students protesting the speech had injured a bystander sympathetic to the speaker. > one gauges people’s level of “empathic concern” by asking them how strongly they agree or disagree with a series of seven statements such as “I often have tender, concerned feelings for people less fortunate than me.” It seems like a problematic way to m…

I'm not sure how a field of science can work without any established basics. Shouldn't there be a standard, thoroughly tested, agreed upon definition of "empathy" so one can build on top of that?

I don't think the problem is the definition of empathy but the measurement of it.

Re: Empathic concern does not reduce partisan animosity: study

#93
post #15

>The authors of the APSR study—Elizabeth Simas and Scott Clifford of the University of Houston and Justin Kirkland of the University of Virginia—have this kind of dynamic in mind when they write, “Polarization is not a consequence of a lack of empathy among the public, but a product of the biased ways in which we experience empathy.” That's the nugget. According to the study, it seems that people with high empathy ar…

> According to the study, it seems that people with high empathy are more often people with high empathy towards their in-group...and a lack of empathy for the out-group. I'd argue that it isn't really empathy at all...just a more emotional form of tribalism. Yes this, especially considering literally everybody is this way . Care and concern for some people and none for others is par for the course. At that point it'…

Nothing about the definition of empathy demands that it be universal. You should be careful about re-defining something just because you don't like the implications.

Re: Empathic concern does not reduce partisan animosity: study

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that taking unironic pleasure at the misfortune of others, or wishing others harm, and the capacity to do so, is the literal opposite of empathy. > Some cultures still eat dog - you don't think they can love their children? This is a non-sequitur.

I think it's pretty popular to hate Nazis right now, does that make one an umepathetic individual?

People can have conflicting emotions. It's possible to hate the ideology without hating the people attached to it.

"Hate the sin, not the sinner."

Re: Empathic concern does not reduce partisan animosity: study

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how a field of science can work without any established basics. Shouldn't there be a standard, thoroughly tested, agreed upon definition of "empathy" so one can build on top of that?

I don't think the problem is the definition of empathy but the measurement of it.

You're right, I thought "tested" did include that.

Re: Empathic concern does not reduce partisan animosity: study

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that taking unironic pleasure at the misfortune of others, or wishing others harm, and the capacity to do so, is the literal opposite of empathy. > Some cultures still eat dog - you don't think they can love their children? This is a non-sequitur.

I think it's pretty popular to hate Nazis right now, does that make one an umepathetic individual?

I wouldn't consider hate and empathy mutually exclusive personally (e.g. you can empathise with somebody that was bullied by their parents, but still hate them because they bully their children), but I do think that somebody that derives pleasure from the suffering of someone that they hate is unempathetic.

Re: Empathic concern does not reduce partisan animosity: study

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Empathy allows people to better understand the asshole which will cause them to hate the asshole even more.

Perceptiveness is not empathy, or else we wouldn't need another word for it. Hatred and empathy are not on the same ends of the emotional spectrum. The ability to perceive others emotions and simultaneously carry toward them feelings of anger, hatred, or malicious intent is not empathy. It's called something else.

It sounds to me like your idea of empathy is more akin to compassion.

Re: Empathic concern does not reduce partisan animosity: study

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that taking unironic pleasure at the misfortune of others, or wishing others harm, and the capacity to do so, is the literal opposite of empathy. > Some cultures still eat dog - you don't think they can love their children? This is a non-sequitur.

I think it's pretty popular to hate Nazis right now, does that make one an umepathetic individual?

Hate and empathy are unrelated. To paraphrase it’s possible to hate the game not the player.

The WWI Christmas truce in 1914 shows this dynamic very clearly. It’s likely these people had great empathy for each other as they where in similar situations even sleeping in the same trenches as the front moved around. Yet, eventually they went back to killing each other. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce

Re: Empathic concern does not reduce partisan animosity: study

#99
post #46

I think there's an interesting dynamic with empathy and freedom of speech: defending freedom of speech forces you to have a basic empathy for everyone. It might not be an empathy based on their lived experiences, but it is one based on respecting that we should collectively protect what they have to communicate. It's why I believe attacks on freedom of speech are so dangerous...they undermine this foundational respec…

I'm not sure I agree. Taking this quotation on free speech as a starting point:

> "I'll never agree with what you say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"

The key points are not agreeing, and defending. I'd argue if you can empathize with them, you could agree with them (were you them), so that's not happening here. What matters is that you're both being attacked by a much more powerful entity, so powerful that it requires an alliance of enemies to successfully defend against. Of course that is government (or now corporate) censorship.

So I think you can hate someone and still defend a shared right against a common aggressor. And you can empathize with them enough to understand why they'd say the thing you disagree with. It's hard for me to imagine both hating and empathizing with the same person at the same time though.

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