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Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

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Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#592

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Genuine question: (you're on a throwaway, what's the harm in answering me, right?) What is there to buy into about pronouns? If my first name is Stan, named after my dad also named Stan, and my middle name is Jason, and my dad abandoned my family when I was young so I prefer people to call me Jason, you'd have no problem calling me Jason and be understanding that calling me Stan is a sore point, right? What if I don'…

Sounds like a genuine question, so I'll give a genuine answer: I'm a very busy person at work. The amount of daily cognitive load I dedicate to pronouns there is essentially zero because it never comes up. The only time it becomes nonzero is when someone else who thinks it's vitally important brings it up, which is pretty much always memegen or some other internal forum where political advocacy creeps in. If someone…

That makes sense, I also dislike people seeking out innocent mistakes and interpreting them in the worst way. "Woke" people definitely don't have a monopoly on that, but it's natural that the hotter a topic is at any given moment, the more common it'll be for that topic.

I don't know how fair it is to suggest that people who have a section in their presentations on pronouns are just trying to "signal that they're woke". It makes sense to me that someone who is personally sensitive about them or has a close personal connection with someone who is personally sensitive about them would do so out of conscientiousness, not disingenuousness.

Thanks for your perspective, I totally agree that it doesn't deserve much cognitive load. Adding pronouns to a slide that had people's names on it would take up less space than most surnames, and while shaming someone if it doesn't occur to them to do so is undeserved, it baffles me when people vehemently resist and spend incredible cognitive resources arguing that it's an enormous burden they can't possibly bear.

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question: (you're on a throwaway, what's the harm in answering me, right?) What is there to buy into about pronouns? If my first name is Stan, named after my dad also named Stan, and my middle name is Jason, and my dad abandoned my family when I was young so I prefer people to call me Jason, you'd have no problem calling me Jason and be understanding that calling me Stan is a sore point, right? What if I don'…

Because changing a name allows the same English grammar to be used the same as it usually would and creating a new pronoun does not. Also, I feel like no one would really care that much if people called Stan by the name that’s registered to him (but prefers not to be called), whereas it becomes a political issue if someone didn’t call him by his preferred pronoun.

I'm sure some people might only slightly prefer not to be called Stan. However, I specifically gave an example of why someone might instead have strong emotional reasons to prefer not to be called Stan.

I'm not sure why becoming a political issue is relevant—if Alice is generally kind to people but refuses to be kind to Bob not because of something Bob did wrong, but because the particular instance of kindness is a political issue, I don't think Alice is a kind person.

The point about grammar doesn't make much sense to me. Someone says "actually I'm not John, I'm Mary", you think it would be more grammatical to start referring to them as Mary, but continue to use he/him?

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#594
post #552

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I'll be on the lookout, but quite frankly I despair. I've always wanted to be in a spooky line of work. Oh well.

If I were in a spooky business, I'd never hire somebody who's too eager to work in this line of work. Too easy to hire a Snowden this way. And I have no idea how they solve this problem... must be tough to be a spook.

Valid point. To clarify, it was hyperbole, as I got (rightly or wrongly) a more "military" vibe. And in my highly uninformed opinion, I'd feel much less comfortable in close quarters with actual spook-dom than I would around high-end military establishment people. Maybe I'm wrong. I'd probably take upper six figures to warm a seat for either, though. Shake the hand of the devil, sell your soul on the dotted line.

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#595

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>The good companies for 9 to 5 casual evil are small >50 man shops which require security clearance to work at. Where do I sign up? (Edit: this is a serious question.) (Second edit: Mencius.)

You need to know a guy, I met mine when I was running a 3d printing course for an astronomy group of all things.

LOL at the GPG swarm down below. I hate the Internet, I regret posting my own GPG message, and I'd delete it if I could.

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#596

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Point taken, but how is badging for meals a ‘facepalm’? Re: decorations, https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/10/04/google-seattle-hall... ?

This, from 2009? "Badging today will allocate funds for your meal tomorrow". And I wrote about it eight years ago. https://rachelbythebay.com/w/2011/10/17/badging/

I might be slow, but I still don't see reason to worry there. What happened in the proceeding months / years that was forewarned by this whiteboard / practice?

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#597

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The dude said whole classes of people were genetically inferior. That makes employee evaluations impossible. He had to go.

This is not what he said at all. He said that the interests of men are different than the interests of women. You are blindly repeating what blogs and other activists reported he said. Go read his memo.

Didn't he specifically claim that science shows women are more neurotic than men?

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#598
post #305

First. Thanks to HN for not demanding phone numbers: anonymity allows to say things that cannot be said. Second. Many googlers read HN. In some sense, HN is the extension of the internal forums. CNBC made a good summary and I can comment on each bullet point. Larry and Brin probably stopped attending because nothing important is said on TGIFs. More people -> more leaks -> less interesting information -> less attenden…

> Don't get me wrong. Google is still the best workplace with top notch pay, but as it's got big, it's also morphed into a typical big corporation with typical corporate politics. Sorry but I cannot stand that level of internal koolaid. I guess you also think that Google got the "smartest" people? There are literally thousands of companies working on problems way more interesting and with more stakes and upsides for…

Well said. I worked at Google on Adtech. I have decades of experience and it was the most meaningless, uninteresting job I ever had. All everyone cared about was perf/promotion and their gsus. I also took a pay cut (total comp, yes) to join, thinking the work would be interesting and people worth it. The last year their was miserable

Sure there are great people and projects but anybody claiming any of them would exist without the drudgery and 90% revenue stream of “adtech” have their blinders on. And fwiw, if all one cares about us pay, Facebook pays MUCH much more.

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#599

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No, I'm discussing. This isn't a workplace, it's a public internet forum. Nobody is prevented from participating here by my posts. You're free to discuss whatever you want as well. Replying to your edit => A workplace is different than the state. You do not have complete freedom within a corporation, and expression is very different from beliefs. Nobody cares about your beliefs, but your expression will be limited to…

The premise that commercial spaces should primarily be organized for productivity is a political statement.

No, it's what businesses are paying employees for. There's nothing political about it, in the context of actual government politics (and not the abstracted everything-is-political viewpoint).

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#600

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Performative outrage? Constantly triggered? Are we talking about the same company? Paying someone $90 million to leave after allegedly assaulting someone [0] isn't something that happens "constantly", and seems like a pretty reasonable thing to have strong opinions about. And there's nothing "performative" about successfully rolling back mandatory arbitration [1], which studies have found is stacked in favor of emplo…

Rubin was accused by, if I recall correctly, a woman he'd been in a relationship with and then dumped? He denied her accusations and as it was all behind closed doors there's no way to ever resolve it. That shouldn't be in the public realm at all, let alone people having strong opinions about it! Honestly if Google really kicked him out because of an unsubstantiable claim by some woman with an axe to grind, or some p…

> He denied her accusations and as it was all behind closed doors there's no way to ever resolve it. That shouldn't be in the public realm at all, let alone people having strong opinions about it!

That's true of every accusation the Miami Herald published against Jeffrey Epstein as well. Do you believe none of that should be in the public realm, either?

I'm not arguing that you're wrong, I'm just pointing out that if you want to live in a world where such accusations stay out of the public realm, then that means you want to live in a world where Jeffrey Epstein is still raping adolescent girls, and you have to admit that's a price you're willing to pay to protect the accused.

Conversely, I have no problem admitting that if I support such he-said-she-said accusations being publicized and having consequences, then even if Al Franken and Aziz Ansari did nothing wrong whatsoever, the hits to their reputation and earnings opportunity cost that they suffered is a price I'm willing to pay to reduce sexual harassment.

I also don't fully understand what you mean but "shouldn't be in the public realm". If me and some other person are the sole eyewitnesses to something, should I be muzzled from saying what I witnessed in the public realm simply because the other eyewitness disagrees?

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