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Hacker Publishes 2TB of Data from Cayman National Bank

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Re: Hacker Publishes 2TB of Data from Cayman National Bank

#131

Post by Concrescator »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #88
CaymanCruiser wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This may be terribly naive, but doesn't that make the business de-facto illegal? What kind of legitimate business deserves to buck paying into the systems that support them? As a default I want to disagree, but I would like to know what business needs to operate outside of these constraints. These constraints that you speak of are entirely arbitrary (geographical delineation) and were designed for a time before the…

I'm sorry but that just sounds absurdly reductive to me. It makes a gross assumption that people are incapable of keeping their government in check. Perhaps, in spite of my own cynicism, I believe people are capable of deciding how they want their societies to run (also in spite of our hiccups here in the Western world). So again: why do such businesses deserve to operate with such impunity? A natural function of bus…

I'm going to be honest. As an American it feels like my government is not in check. Not at all. They are failing to represent the wishes of constituents.

I too feel like the person you replied to. Why can't our goverment get with the times and create infrastructure to support the new global economy.

Re: Hacker Publishes 2TB of Data from Cayman National Bank

#132

Post by adventured »

pc86 wrote: post #109
adventured wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That won't get you into the global 1%. Around 70 million people are earning more than $50,000 per year in the US. Western Europe, Canada, Australia, Japan, South Korea, China, etc. combined also have a very large number of people similarly over that line. Your figure probably needs to be 100% higher.

Do you have a source for that? We're pushing 7 billion people on the planet. Here's a source that uses that $34k figure: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/05061...

That's pretty straightforward. There are 128 million people working full-time jobs in the US. The full-time median income in the US is between $48,000 and $52,000 for 2019 depending on your source. The BLS says it's about $48k for the third quarter of 2019.

The often quoted lower median figure, in the $30,000s ($34,000x for 2019; it was ~$33,700 for 2018), is the median income for all US workers, including people working relatively few hours.

Being conservative, the US has at least 60x million people making $50,000 or more per year. That's ignoring anything that doesn't show up in the BLS numbers.

Now consider how massive the rest of the global economy is and the tens of millions of people in dozens of other countries with high incomes. The US all by itself eliminates the possibility of $34,000 being the 1% line.

With the strict US median at the $34,000 line, that's ~78 million workers at or above that level. Again, that's for one country.

China has a very large number of people earning around the US median now, due to their scale. They add tens of millions of more people to the over $34k group. Then include Western Europe, they add tens of millions more. And so on.

Re: Hacker Publishes 2TB of Data from Cayman National Bank

#133

Post by balls187 »

jdkee wrote: post #45
CaymanCruiser wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using a throwaway for obvious reasons. I have a fair bit of insight into this industry, both from friends, acquaintances, and family who use a variety of offshore structures to manage their wealth and from my own dealings (the company I founded and currently manage is offshored for tax and legal purposes). What people don’t realise is that aside from a couple outliers offshore jurisdictions aren’t that shady at all a…

"the company I founded and currently manage is offshored for tax and legal purposes" Simply curious, how do you feel about the ethics of this? Is it to reduce the tax burden in your company's home country?

> Simply curious, how do you feel about the ethics of this?

This seems like standard practice for many companies who operate offices in foreign countries. It is easier (compliance) and cheaper (compliance and taxes) to have foreign subsidiaries.

What ethical violations are you envisioning?

Re: Hacker Publishes 2TB of Data from Cayman National Bank

#134

Post by Concrescator »

magashna wrote: post #49
jdkee wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the company I founded and currently manage is offshored for tax and legal purposes" Simply curious, how do you feel about the ethics of this? Is it to reduce the tax burden in your company's home country?

> quite frankly draconian rules that usually places them on US/EU/OECD blacklists Assuming ethics is not a concern

Who's ethics? Really. Who's.

Ethics isn't a black and white thing and people feel differently globally about whats ethical.

Take copyright. That's a western thing, but personally I think we can do without. I like China's ethics on copyright even though most westerners would disagree.

Re: Hacker Publishes 2TB of Data from Cayman National Bank

#135

Post by tw04 »

turtlesdown11 wrote: post #60
tw04 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a pretty noble, if naive reason. "Rule of law" stops where economic interests begin and always has. Rule of law didn't stop the invasion of Iraq. Rule of law hasn't stopped the countless CIA backed coups in South America. Rule of law didn't stop funding/promoting the Arab spring. Larger countries constantly bully smaller ones and will continue to do so anytime it's economically convenient. The reason Grand Cay…

>There's a reason the Panama Papers went away quietly despite the assassination of the human who exposed it. The human who exposed it is still anonymous. A journalist who wrote using the Panama Papers as a source was murdered, most likely by local Maltese exposed by the journalist. There has been $1B plus in taxes recovered as a result of the publication.

>There has been $1B plus in taxes recovered as a result of the publication.

How many people are in prison? How many middle class folks get by with a slap on the wrist for tax evasion?

Re: Hacker Publishes 2TB of Data from Cayman National Bank

#136

Post by tossAfterUsing »

seibelj wrote: post #95
jxramos wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_movement_under_Un...

There’s legality and morality. Moving all my wealth to Cayman (or Texas) may be 100% legal but I thought we were debating ethics. All of these HNers decamping from NYC and SF to Florida and Texas are horrible awful people depriving the local governments of California and New York their deserved taxes!

When you say "deserved taxes", what precisely is the reasoning behind this deservedness?

it seems to me that there's no reasonable way to lay claim to the work product of another person without being a total jerk... maybe i'm mistaken.

Re: Hacker Publishes 2TB of Data from Cayman National Bank

#137

Post by tossAfterUsing »

CaymanCruiser wrote: post #76
52-6F-62 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> tax and legal purposes This may be terribly naive, but doesn't that make the business de-facto illegal? What kind of legitimate business deserves to buck paying into the systems that support them? As a default I want to disagree, but I would like to know what business needs to operate outside of these constraints. Surely the businesses utilizing the favours of banks like Cayman are not being operated within tyranni…

>This may be terribly naive, but doesn't that make the business de-facto illegal? What kind of legitimate business deserves to buck paying into the systems that support them? As a default I want to disagree, but I would like to know what business needs to operate outside of these constraints. These constraints that you speak of are entirely arbitrary (geographical delineation) and were designed for a time before the…

> get with the changing tides and reform their archaic taxation codes to account for an increasingly globalised economy.

they don't know how.

Re: Hacker Publishes 2TB of Data from Cayman National Bank

#138

Post by [deleted] »

seibelj wrote: post #58
52-6F-62 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> tax and legal purposes This may be terribly naive, but doesn't that make the business de-facto illegal? What kind of legitimate business deserves to buck paying into the systems that support them? As a default I want to disagree, but I would like to know what business needs to operate outside of these constraints. Surely the businesses utilizing the favours of banks like Cayman are not being operated within tyranni…

I still can’t believe it’s legal to move from SF to Texas if you were born and raised in SF. You owe the good people of San Francisco repayment for raising and nurturing you. Leaving after all that education and local services is a corrupt tax-dodge into a state without income tax.

[deleted]

Re: Hacker Publishes 2TB of Data from Cayman National Bank

#139

Post by zilian »

_8j50 wrote: post #125
joshypants wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The future of the species is literally imperiled right now because we've allowed rich people to hoard wealth, so that's a reason to care.

Really? I thought governments had a lot more, like trillions more. I thought the quality of life for humanity has never been better than now? Do you mean climate change? If so how does rich people's greed fit in the picture. I don't think they should hoard cash, there should be a limit on that but net worth usually includea stock value, wealth in form of stocks is far from hoarding. I think cash wealth limits and a l…

You must be rich to talk like that. Rich people generally emit a f#ckton of co2 and worse, they do not use their wealth to try to mitigate it, thereby condemning their own children.

Re: Hacker Publishes 2TB of Data from Cayman National Bank

#140

Post by egman_ekki »

CaymanCruiser wrote: post #92
bikeshaving wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> an ultra-low corporate tax rate makes it possible to offer our customers services at a lower price than otherwise - I see this as a good thing. The claim that you’re transparently passing the savings of tax avoidance onto consumers rather than charging market-rate and pocketing the difference is both unlikely and unprovable. And even if you were charging less, this would essentially amount to an unfair, extra-legal…

> ...unfair, extra-legal competitive advantage. It is not unfair, and it is not extra-legal. Anyone can offshore their company and in some cases it can take less than an day (incorporating an LLP in the UK takes a couple of hours) with virtually zero barriers of entry, all fully compliant with the relevant legislation. If legal regulatory arbitrage (through tax havens) is unfair, then the corollary is that any kind o…

I thought most OECD countries have rules for companies being tax liable at their "effective place of management" and "arms length" etc principles to prevent funneling money to tax havens. Or is it just the correct loopholes you need to know about to ignore all of this?
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