Live data from Hacker News

FedEx responds to The New York Times article from Nov. 17, 2019

about.van.fedex.com

71–80 of 321 posts

Re: FedEx responds to The New York Times article from Nov. 17, 2019

#71
post #6

I love this idea – of an actual, genuine debate on this topic where an actual corporate executive can make some points (I know they will be Tim-Cook-like spin but debate is better than asynchronous speeches where people talk at each other) Update: I realized I didn't write the second half of my sentence... which makes me sound like a corporate shill. The second half is... AND someone on the other side can immediately…

Are you saying that every time the New York Times publishes an article, and a corporation disagrees with the vetted, researched facts published by the paper of record in the United States, that we should hear out the corporation in a pubic forum? I vehemently disagree. Facts are not up for debate, no matter how much money is behind the people who would like to debate them. Additionally, implying that corporate execut…

Wow, that's not at all what I'm saying. Believe me, I am STRONGLY in the camp of "these goddamn companies need to be held accountable for their tax dodging."

However, you can't change the _fact_ that what they're doing is "legal." The issue is with federal tax policy that needs to be changed.

I'm talking about the nature of calling bullshit on what companies do to their face, rather than PR firms talking to each other, and there's value in that.

Here's the spin that happens (and it's especially bad because it's just published without much challenge):

Any company that dodges taxes always say (to quote Tim Cook): "We pay every single penny of taxes we owe" – which says NOTHING about all the tax dodging these companies did to arrive at a minuscule bill of what was owed, and then, sure, they paid what they owed, correct.

But in that format, where Cook makes a speech, and then someone writes a rebuttal article 2 weeks later, nothing really gets done.

In a debate format, you can quickly say "yeah that's bullshit. You're making a semantic and laser focused argument. It's like saying you didn't kill that person by strangling them, they died because their brain stopped receiving oxygenated blood."

And there's a public record of you pushing back against this BS corporate-speak. You _can't_ do that in the normal, traditional way this is done, which is that:

1) newspaper publishes article of wrongdoing 2) PR firm publishes press release with insane amounts of spin 3) nothing changes.

Re: FedEx responds to The New York Times article from Nov. 17, 2019

#72
post #61
post #20

This statement is a farce. They claim the story is factually incorrect, but provide no corrections. They point out the NYT does the same thing, but that does not contradict anything in the NYT article, and has no bearing on what they did. Finally, they yell "debate me!" but rather than proposing a debate on the facts in dispute, instead want to debate federal tax policy which neither controls.

They claim the story is factually incorrect, but provide no corrections. There were two claims in the NY Times story: 1) FedEx paid $0 in tax 2) FedEx "has not made good on its promised investment surge" In response, FedEx wrote in their statement: 1) our billions of dollars of tax payments whereby they dispute paying $0 in taxes 2) $6 billion of capital that FedEx invested in the U.S. economy This directly contradic…

1) They aren't disputing the "$0 paid in taxes in 2018," which is the main point of the NYTimes article (an article about how companies were responding to the Tax Cuts/Jobs Act). "Billions of dollars in tax payments" is factually correct, but doesn't address the core allegation.

2) $6 billion compared to what (prior to previous years)? No point of reference here.

The response is great theater, but it is carefully worded to not refute the allegations.

Re: FedEx responds to The New York Times article from Nov. 17, 2019

#73
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The FedEx statement seems like a classic example of corporate deception. It seems very carefully worded, probably by a team of attorneys, to be technically true but grossly misleading. The tell is that FedEx calls the NYT article "factually incorrect" but never states exactly what assertions they dispute. It's as if they want the reader and the media to infer that FedEx actually did pay taxes on billions in profit, o…

> The FedEx statement seems like a classic example of corporate deception. This coincidentally also describes the NYTs piece which was also misleading, bordering on activism.

In what way is it "misleading?" Seems like that's just repeating FedEx's unsubstantiated talking points.

Re: FedEx responds to The New York Times article from Nov. 17, 2019

#74
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The FedEx statement seems like a classic example of corporate deception. It seems very carefully worded, probably by a team of attorneys, to be technically true but grossly misleading. The tell is that FedEx calls the NYT article "factually incorrect" but never states exactly what assertions they dispute. It's as if they want the reader and the media to infer that FedEx actually did pay taxes on billions in profit, o…

> The FedEx statement seems like a classic example of corporate deception. This coincidentally also describes the NYTs piece which was also misleading, bordering on activism.

What was misleading about the NYT piece?

Re: FedEx responds to The New York Times article from Nov. 17, 2019

#75
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The FedEx statement seems like a classic example of corporate deception. It seems very carefully worded, probably by a team of attorneys, to be technically true but grossly misleading. The tell is that FedEx calls the NYT article "factually incorrect" but never states exactly what assertions they dispute. It's as if they want the reader and the media to infer that FedEx actually did pay taxes on billions in profit, o…

> The FedEx statement seems like a classic example of corporate deception. This coincidentally also describes the NYTs piece which was also misleading, bordering on activism.

Can you give some specific examples of things in the NYT piece that are misleading?

Re: FedEx responds to The New York Times article from Nov. 17, 2019

#76
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a great statement. They aren't disputing the facts. Fedex is disputing that cutting taxes is a bad thing and is saying lets talk about it. EDIT: and as you pointed out Fedex is just following fed tax policy that it doesn't control.

>They aren't disputing the facts. I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion. The first sentence says the story is "distorted and factually incorrect" and they later call it an "outrageous distortion of the truth". This statement is screaming "fake news" and "debate me" like some Twitter troll. It is crazy to see this as an official statement from a Fortune 100 company.

>It is crazy to see this as an official statement from a Fortune 100 company.

No it's not—the era of "journalists" being de facto arbiters of truth is most definitely over.

Re: FedEx responds to The New York Times article from Nov. 17, 2019

#78
I'm much, much more concerned about The New York Times deceptively pushing a political agenda during an election year than I am about FedEx legally paying as few taxes as possible. We all do that every tax season!

It seems like the real story is how the NYT is actively campaigning for the DNC and I'm glad FedEx is calling them out.

Re: FedEx responds to The New York Times article from Nov. 17, 2019

#79
So they lay out what the discussion should be about :

The focus of the debate should be federal tax policy and the relative societal benefits of business investments and the enormous intended benefits to the United States economy, especially lower and middle class wage earners.

But this above is not what the piece was about..

Now I'm confused..

Re: FedEx responds to The New York Times article from Nov. 17, 2019

#80
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but I’ll take a stab at it: he’s saying that the NYT is overly liberal, frequently trashes businesses as being tax evaders and plagues on society, misses its own hypocrisy, and doesn’t live up to its historical pedigree when it comes to fact checking.

There, that wasn't so hard. Take a lesson, OP, list specific verifiable arguments instead of ad hominem "yeah those guys suck as usual".

Wait, I’m verifiable? Who knew?!
Post reply on HN