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Amazon’s quest for more, cheaper products has resulted in a flea market of fakes

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391–400 of 403 posts

Re: Amazon’s quest for more, cheaper products has resulted in a flea market of fakes

#391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that a sensical definition of waste here? The difference in externalities has to be greater than and opposite to the delta in cost, in order for their decision to be wrong, I think. Just because externalities are ignored doesn't prove anything in particular if you don't know the relative change.

Fair point. Let's say, "Sure to be wasteful compared with a decision that takes everything into account." Or, more simply, "Sure to be more wasteful." Although for the people who experience the negative exernalities, by their account it will always be wasteful, in that they only experience costs, not gains.

Well, I'm specifically saying that it's not sure to be wasteful compared to a more informed decision.

That's a general fact about the world, that making decisions on incomplete information does not necessarily produce worse results. Sometimes things turn out better than you expected and sometimes worse.

People are often significantly biased, but that's separate from the issue of not taking "everything" into account.

It also seems obviously wrong to say that a negative externality is or should be considered in isolation. It's just silly to say that people who experience negative things only experience negative things or that any category of things that includes negative things must be net negative.

Re: Amazon’s quest for more, cheaper products has resulted in a flea market of fakes

#392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair point. Let's say, "Sure to be wasteful compared with a decision that takes everything into account." Or, more simply, "Sure to be more wasteful." Although for the people who experience the negative exernalities, by their account it will always be wasteful, in that they only experience costs, not gains.

Well, I'm specifically saying that it's not sure to be wasteful compared to a more informed decision. That's a general fact about the world, that making decisions on incomplete information does not necessarily produce worse results. Sometimes things turn out better than you expected and sometimes worse. People are often significantly biased, but that's separate from the issue of not taking "everything" into account.…

Well if I'm saying a lot of things that are taken as just silly, clearly this discussion is wasteful of my time.

Re: Amazon’s quest for more, cheaper products has resulted in a flea market of fakes

#393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I consider it a problem. This appears to be an instance of listing abuse. I'd encourage people to report listing abuse if they come across it. I believe these are the correct instructions: https://sellercentral.amazon.com/gp/help/external/200444420 Situations where you're fighting against financially-motivated human adversaries are always difficult.

In my experience Amazon is designed to block reviews that call out questionable products, Amazon is designed to make returns difficult for fraudulent products. "You pay for the shipping", hide all customer service options related to seller issues, etc etc. Amazon is complicit in the fraud committed by their sellers. They restrict critical reviews by people who bought fraudulent products under the guise of a tos viola…

> Amazon is designed to make returns difficult for fraudulent products

This makes me wonder if the algorithmic blacklisting of customers with frequent returns takes the reason for return into account.

Re: Amazon’s quest for more, cheaper products has resulted in a flea market of fakes

#394

Forget counterfeits for a second. Even trying to find something like an ultrasonic cleaner on Amazon is like straight going through AliExpress. But wait! Unless you're buying a very very expensive lab model all the "name brands" look to be sourcing the same way and adding a label too. So the name brands are AliExpress with maybe better QC and 200% markup. But wait! Even looking everywhere else it's the same situation…

Businesses are not safe either. Look up stories about the steel industry, fake steel, low grade mislabeled steel, last moment change of steel on the train after you've inspected it, etc.

Several bridges and high rises have already collapsed after such issues.

Re: Amazon’s quest for more, cheaper products has resulted in a flea market of fakes

#395

Forget counterfeits for a second. Even trying to find something like an ultrasonic cleaner on Amazon is like straight going through AliExpress. But wait! Unless you're buying a very very expensive lab model all the "name brands" look to be sourcing the same way and adding a label too. So the name brands are AliExpress with maybe better QC and 200% markup. But wait! Even looking everywhere else it's the same situation…

Businesses are not safe either. Look up stories about the steel industry, fake steel, low grade mislabeled steel, last moment change of steel on the train after you've inspected it, etc. Several bridges and high rises have already collapsed after such issues.

Not doubting your word, but can you provide sources for your claims?

Re: Amazon’s quest for more, cheaper products has resulted in a flea market of fakes

#396

There's a lot of emphasis in this article on counterfeits of luxury goods sold at obviously counterfeit prices (like the Hermès for 5% of genuine retail), but not much on the far more insidious (and seemingly pervasive, in my experience) general merchandise counterfeits sold for what is often not a suspiciously big discount. Categories like kitchen or yard tools are absolutely rife with counterfeits. As an example, s…

It's the everyday goods counterfeits that actually concern me. A fake luxury handbag won't hurt me, a fake carbon monoxide detector will.

Re: Amazon’s quest for more, cheaper products has resulted in a flea market of fakes

#397
post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The term for this is "Quality Fade" and is by no means unique to amazon. This is a very common thing in all low-cost manufacturing. you start with higher quality and lower margin, and gradually degrade quality to improve margin. You consistently flirt with the lowest quality possible.

I mean for software we talk about reproducability and versions down to the bit. But if a consumer products replaces one piece of metal with plastic it's apparently the same product? Products should have versions that look like this. 2.1 * Replaces piece X with plastic. * Reduced frame width to save material costs. This could also be positive and make it more transparent. 2.2 * Strength part X that breaks very often.…

My guess is that there are serial number / model number / revision numbers that do change when this is done. It is just not mandatory that these changes be published. I agree that it would be nice to know when metal gears had been replaced with plastic.

Re: Amazon’s quest for more, cheaper products has resulted in a flea market of fakes

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, though there’s a challenge even with that, which is that most brands even high quality ones now have a mix of products, where their low-end ones are cheap rebranded crap, and their high-end ones are still manufactured in high-quality facilities. But figuring out where that split in their product line is takes work. I recently had to do that for buying a torque wrench, a hand blender, and a couple of other thing…

Oh, yeah, I had Patagonia in mind with my original comment for clothes, but I've got no idea where one would look for tools or appliances.

You basically have to dig around and hope to find some kind of comment or 3rd party review like this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/RBMOXF4TR5678/ref...

TLDR - he found out what factory in China the product is made in, then did a comparison test with a similar tool made in the same factory but at one third the cost. Found the cheaper tool was higher quality.

Re: Amazon’s quest for more, cheaper products has resulted in a flea market of fakes

#399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also a more subtle version of this, where the seller leaves the listing the same, but once enough positive reviews have accumulated they move production to a cheaper factory and use cheaper materials. So you might see older reviews for a pair of boots that say they're made from sturdy materials with good stitching, followed by later reviews saying that they didn't match the advertised sizing and pictures, or…

This is an accelerated variant of typical business evolution. How many high grade brands are now cashing on their name subtly. Seduction etc

How many high grade brands are now cashing on their name subtly

"No way, that would never work!" he typed under the sultry cast of his Bell & Howell lantern.

http://bellandhowell.com/lanterns

Re: Amazon’s quest for more, cheaper products has resulted in a flea market of fakes

#400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an accelerated variant of typical business evolution. How many high grade brands are now cashing on their name subtly. Seduction etc

How many high grade brands are now cashing on their name subtly "No way, that would never work!" he typed under the sultry cast of his Bell & Howell lantern. http://bellandhowell.com/lanterns

Well, your story has persuaded me to buy this lantern.
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