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Show HN: A remote browser product, open-sourced

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Re: Show HN: A remote browser product, open-sourced

#61
post #57

This is cool, but to me it sounds like you are building high value targets for a hacker. Hack one instance and get access to hundreds of users browsing the internet.

The risk you point out is extremely true. That's one reason why corporate/paid deployments are single-tenant. So everyone (not hundreds, it's more compartmentalized than that) on an instance belongs to the same company, or if desired, the same unit.

Even in this free demo, every user has their own browser process, with its own uid owner, and that OS uid has its own limited permissions.

At the same time, it's not an insignificant risk at all and you raise a very good point, which I'm surprised no one brought up before. Thank you for bringing it to everyone's attention.

An instance is a single point of failure, it's also less attack surface. To some extent, that's a tradeoff. Relative to all devices and network infrastructure in a typical company that access the public web, there's less attack surface if all web access funnels through a BG instance. On the other hand, it's a concentration of the risks into one place. My belief is that makes it easier to manage, and that the "gap" between the client infrastructure and devices and the cloud (through which only pixels, and a wire protocol of user intent pass), makes it more secure than accessing the public web directly.

Even tho it's a single point of attack, a compromise of a cloud machine, is not the same as a compromise of a device in a company intranet, or a mobile phone of someone in the company. In order to exploit the user's local machine or their organization's network, an attacker would still need to convert any instance access they had into access of a company device or network. This could happen through attack vectors in the pixels for the screen view (less likely) or through compromising the source code that serves the thin client (more likely). This is why monitoring of source code integrity is important. Open Source is an important part of that.

At the same time, in these free demo versions the browsers only exist for 10 minutes, and, exactly as you say, hundreds of strangers are all browsing from the same machine together.

TL;DR - It's a tradeoff of centralized infrastructure. There's less attack surface, but there's also a single point of failure.

Also, if you want to responsibly dislcose any security vulnerabilities you discover, please report to cris@dosycorp.com and if you want I can acknowledge you here https://github.com/dosycorp/vulnerability-reports

Re: Show HN: A remote browser product, open-sourced

#62
post #52

Bleak future flashed in front of my eyes - Google Chrome v100 - browser runs on google's cloud, you are just being streamed view to your Chrome Client™. So secure and you are so out of control.

Which would definitely be in-line with what they're doing presently with Stadia.

To be fair running browser sessions should be so much less demanding than running triple A games.

Re: Show HN: A remote browser product, open-sourced

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will there be any architectural hurdle in integrating puppeteer with BrowserGap to provide a remote automated workflow?

There's no reason this couldn't happen. pptr and BG both use Chrome DevTools to communicate with the browser, so there's that commonality. I haven't looked extensively at the pptr source but I imagine both pptr and BG do some bookkeeping of state related to the sequence of commands (BG certainly does), rather than a purely "stateless" command queue. For instance, for some things you need to keep track of which sessio…

Thank you for the detailed comment. I'll explore BG further.

Re: Show HN: A remote browser product, open-sourced

#64
post #60

Does this support Flash Player? Having plugins like that RBI'd would be very useful as they're big attack vectors and usually not supported on mobile.

Not flash, but PDF and DOCX/XLSX should work okay.

I have not thought about Flash, but I totally get the point you make. It looks like it would be very useful as they are big attack vectors and usually not supported on mobile.

Thank you for this feedback.

Re: Show HN: A remote browser product, open-sourced

#65
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which would definitely be in-line with what they're doing presently with Stadia.

To be fair running browser sessions should be so much less demanding than running triple A games.

I don't doubt it for a second, but if you can make one happen why _not_ the other? if you already have a very powerful video compressor with low latency, why not do hosted applications?

Totally makes sense because you unconstrain yourself from supporting all web-browsers, rolling out features gradually, and it unconstrains you from javascript too.

Imagine instead of google docs you had microsoft excel but surrounded by a browser window, everything else is the same. I know people would pay for that. (even if I personally prefer google docs)

Re: Show HN: A remote browser product, open-sourced

#66

This represents over 1 year of work. Why am I open sourcing this? I don't see any other RBI / CBII vendor open sourcing their platform and in the security industry "closed source" can create issues. But what about business defensibility? I agree. Open sourcing removes the trade secret aspect that could make a defensible business. At the same time, a determined hacker would already have my source code. A hacked "free…

Are you familiar with https://mightyapp.com/ it looks like there are people working on something very similar but closed source & VC backed. Thoughts?

Re: Show HN: A remote browser product, open-sourced

#67

This represents over 1 year of work. Why am I open sourcing this? I don't see any other RBI / CBII vendor open sourcing their platform and in the security industry "closed source" can create issues. But what about business defensibility? I agree. Open sourcing removes the trade secret aspect that could make a defensible business. At the same time, a determined hacker would already have my source code. A hacked "free…

When you say over one year of work, do you mean one year of manpower (aka ~2000 hours) or that you started it about a year ago?

Re: Show HN: A remote browser product, open-sourced

#68
Cool idea at first, but on second thought, how is it supposed to mitigate internet threats? Users need to download files, open them with local apps, upload local files. All necessary channels for RCEs and exfiltration are still there. Current malware codebase might get stuck with it, but it's a matter of time and adoption. Other threats like clickjacking, cryptomining, phishing would just work as before.

Am I missing something?

Re: Show HN: A remote browser product, open-sourced

#69

This represents over 1 year of work. Why am I open sourcing this? I don't see any other RBI / CBII vendor open sourcing their platform and in the security industry "closed source" can create issues. But what about business defensibility? I agree. Open sourcing removes the trade secret aspect that could make a defensible business. At the same time, a determined hacker would already have my source code. A hacked "free…

When you say over one year of work, do you mean one year of manpower (aka ~2000 hours) or that you started it about a year ago?

Thanks for the thoughtful question.

For the CE release, I deleted the Git history (it became too difficult to deal with branch rewrites trying to remove all the cruft and deployment secret keys etc).

But the actual current working repo for the non-free version has ~ 2400 commits[0]. And the repo that I forked that from (~ 7 months ago), I'd closed 238 issues, and the repo I forked that project from I closed 200 issues. Those previous repos are all my work built from the ground up within this last ~12 months as well. The current working repo has closed 124 issues.

My Gitlab contribs for the last year are at: https://gitlab.com/dosycorp

And it's actually a little bit over 1 year, and if I count the Gitlab contribs show there, it's over 5500.

So, yeah it's been about 2000 hours I think. Working full time every week day and most weekends, and often longer than regular hours (but also dividing the work up in the day into sprints because that's how I manage myself to work best).

It's definitely been a year.

[0]: https://imgur.com/gallery/wpNhxS0

Re: Show HN: A remote browser product, open-sourced

#70

This represents over 1 year of work. Why am I open sourcing this? I don't see any other RBI / CBII vendor open sourcing their platform and in the security industry "closed source" can create issues. But what about business defensibility? I agree. Open sourcing removes the trade secret aspect that could make a defensible business. At the same time, a determined hacker would already have my source code. A hacked "free…

Are you familiar with https://mightyapp.com/ it looks like there are people working on something very similar but closed source & VC backed. Thoughts?

Yes! I requested an invite and reached out to Suhail on Twitter (I actually interviewed at Mixpanel ~ 18 months ago before I knew anything about MP or MA) about a technical question about MA that I got to thinking about from my experience building BG but didn't hear back from them.

Mixpanel was a cool interview. I remember the question was about data structure for a rank system (it was a heap). The office in SF is beautiful, and the lunchtime catered food, was great.

I guess I'd have more to say about MA if I knew more about it! I did not try it yet and I don't know how they make Chrome faster in the cloud and deliver a seamless broadcast of the screen to the user, but with enough smart people, I'm sure it's possible.

As I said in a previous comment, I definitely think the future is mreo 'app virtualization' in the cloud, in some sense perhaps MA is starting at the beginning of that curve.

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