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The Mind of a Mathematician

paw.princeton.edu

61–68 of 68 posts

Re: The Mind of a Mathematician

#61
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is an unsolvable problem. [...] it can't get popular because it's technical; that's the iron law of STEM popularization, you can only choose one. I'm reminded of education research of the form "We tried to teach topic T to students in grade G. We taught it really, really badly. Surprisingly, that didn't work! We draw the obvious conclusion... students in grade G are developmentally unready to understand topic…

Sorry, but this is idealistic to the extreme. You are completely dismissing the results of education research by saying that every educator is incompetent, despite almost all of these people having far more education experience than both of us combined. Your proposal to fix education is apparently to hyper-focus on a few technical points, like friction and the Sun's color. I don't see how this will help; have you act…

Human brains (and bodies) are relentless optimizers. "Use it or lose it" applies to everything from muscle tone and flexibility up to higher cognitive stuff like mathematics. The reason nothing "sticks" is because kids stop using it the moment they stop being tested on it.

We treat education like an assembly line that's supposed to turn every kid into a productive member of society, using a one-size-fits-all curriculum. That's a wrong-headed approach. We should treat it like a mix between olympic trials and career fair. Identify the precocious and the enthusiastic in each subject area. Let teens decide what they want to do.

It won't work, however, until we give teens the right to self-determination. Helicopter parents trying to force their kids to be engineers or doctors, ability be damned, is one of the most pernicious factors in the sorry state of education. The other, perhaps equally pernicious, is the parents who can't or won't help their kids with anything despite their eagerness to learn.

Re: The Mind of a Mathematician

#62
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is an unsolvable problem. [...] it can't get popular because it's technical; that's the iron law of STEM popularization, you can only choose one. I'm reminded of education research of the form "We tried to teach topic T to students in grade G. We taught it really, really badly. Surprisingly, that didn't work! We draw the obvious conclusion... students in grade G are developmentally unready to understand topic…

Sorry, but this is idealistic to the extreme. You are completely dismissing the results of education research by saying that every educator is incompetent, despite almost all of these people having far more education experience than both of us combined. Your proposal to fix education is apparently to hyper-focus on a few technical points, like friction and the Sun's color. I don't see how this will help; have you act…

Let's see, how to fruitfully do this...

A while back, I had a conversation with a biology professor, about a speculative alternative approach to teaching a topic, which might yield deeper understanding. Their reply was roughly, "Nifty, but... My students will soon be taking the MCAT. It will determine whether their years of effort and dreams will succeed or fail. The MCAT doesn't test for that deeper understanding. It asks for . I would be doing my students a disservice, to spend our limited time together, on anything else."

Which is completely reasonable. One encounters similar constraints down into middle-school.

Similarly, imagine you are talking with a teacher in a country whose educational system prioritizes memorization and superficial understanding even more than our own. India perhaps.

You emphasize the importance of moving beyond rote whole-classroom call-and-response memorize-and-regurgitate. Of developing skills of system modeling, equational reasoning, and problem solving. More like the USA. And the teacher replies to you, similarly to the biology professor above.

Which is completely reasonable.

But surely, that's not all there is. One can step back, and deal with a larger picture. At least within the education research community of that country, there seems value in awareness and discussion, that there might be different, better ways of doing things. And an exploration of what might become possible under unfamiliar sets of deployment constraints. To inform long-term funding and effort. And system-level tweaks. But which might also turn up bits of overlooked opportunities for nearer-term improvement.

I suggest there is value in similar awareness, discussion, and exploration, within our own country/system.

And that there's value, possibly great value, in doing more of it than we have been. Examples of existent efforts might be life-sciences degree curriculum rewrites, and quantitative introductory biology.

For a concrete illustration (illustrative examples is what those "hyper-focus" points earlier were also intended to be ;) of opportunity, somewhat analogous to F=ma, is a second-year college biology top-of-the-wish-list that incoming students have a firmer grasp of central dogma. Which it turns out, with appropriate tooling, is accessible and useful down into middle-school. And so there's now community and institutional support for spreading that tooling and content.

Another is, there's some work on engineering early science education content, to "immunize" against later misconceptions. Early as in K and even pre-K, for primary/middle-school misconceptions. Some of it almost as side effect - content you might use anyway, but tweaked to have nice long-term properties. Rather than struggling to overwrite naive understandings later, you nudge them in the right direction while they're still being formed. I don't recall whether anyone has explored doing this for motion misconceptions, but they seem the kind of thing it might work for.

When people are doing desperate triage in production hell, they understandably have limited attention for someone saying "you know, if we had resources that we don't, and time that we don't, it might be possible to do much better here, and hmm... what might that look like...?" But a healthy tool ecosystem will have some people discussing and exploring that.

Re: The Mind of a Mathematician

#63
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've met a number of such prodigies in the course of my work If you don't mind, can you elaborate more on what kind of work you do? Do you run a school for the gifted (assuming such a thing exists)?

I've taught at the U.S. Physics Olympiad's training camp, and also tutor high school students who want to learn a ton of physics quickly. (These kids usually find me themselves, through Google.) My most obnoxiously smart student was this 12 year old who would interrupt my lectures on classical mechanics with tricky questions I couldn't solve. The next year he came back, doing the same thing but for quantum mechanics,…

But a parent has to sign the permission slip for training camp, or drive the kid to tutoring. It's harder (not impossible of course) when the parent is abusive or antagonistic.

Re: The Mind of a Mathematician

#64
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've met a number of such prodigies in the course of my work If you don't mind, can you elaborate more on what kind of work you do? Do you run a school for the gifted (assuming such a thing exists)?

I've taught at the U.S. Physics Olympiad's training camp, and also tutor high school students who want to learn a ton of physics quickly. (These kids usually find me themselves, through Google.) My most obnoxiously smart student was this 12 year old who would interrupt my lectures on classical mechanics with tricky questions I couldn't solve. The next year he came back, doing the same thing but for quantum mechanics,…

Any examples of those questions?

Re: The Mind of a Mathematician

#65
Celebrating Tao's successes through media, movies and and other pop-culture vehicles, is very good, and I very happy this is happening.

Shining the light into the continent of Mathematics, and its celebrity inhabitants, brings attention and, just may be a bit of the appreciation, of complex and demanding it is to live there...

But, I do think, that to bring more and more people into the field, we have to also celebrate the diversity and range in the abilities, of the people who have, and who will have, contributed to the science of Mathematics.

I am sure that not every accomplished, and well respected mathematician need to have the cognitive brilliancy of Tao or Nash.

I find inspiration and, to a degree, comfort, in this quote by Alexander Grothendieck (specifically, the point where he felt, by far, he was not the most brilliant person in the room)

>" ..Since then I've had the chance, in the world of mathematics that bid me welcome, to meet quite a number of people, both among my "elders" and among young people in my general age group, who were much more brilliant, much more "gifted" than I was.

I admired the facility with which they picked up, as if at play, new ideas, juggling them as if familiar with them from the cradle—while for myself I felt clumsy, even oafish, wandering painfully up an arduous track, like a dumb ox faced with an amorphous mountain of things that I had to learn (so I was assured), things I felt incapable of understanding the essentials or following through to the end.

Indeed, there was little about me that identified the kind of bright student who wins at prestigious competitions or assimilates, almost by sleight of hand, the most forbidding subjects. ..

In fact, most of these comrades who I gauged to be more brilliant than I have gone on to become distinguished mathematicians.

Still, from the perspective of thirty or thirty-five years, I can state that their imprint upon the mathematics of our time has not been very profound.

They've all done things, often beautiful things, in a context that was already set out before them, which they had no inclination to disturb.

Without being aware of it, they've remained prisoners of those invisible and despotic circles which delimit the universe of a certain milieu in a given era.

To have broken these bounds they would have had to rediscover in themselves that capability which was their birthright, as it was mine: the capacity to be alone.”

..."

see also discussion on HN here

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8604814

https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/405977.Alexander_Gro...

Re: The Mind of a Mathematician

#66
post #49
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd (conservatively) speculate most of us here are in the global 1% in terms of "ability to understand math". Have tried multiple times to follow his work (from the blog). But I'm not math-fluent enough to understand or otherwise appreciate the content. Possibly I could but it requires so much effort. It's much easier to enjoy Bach's or Messi's genius :)

This (Bach) is a parallel that comes up often in both lay and professional music on the nature of "genius". I've had some success with the following analogy. Music is not math, but the conversation between research mathematicians is a bit like the conversation between composers. In order for them to understand each other well they must understand the notation, but also the instruments/tools, the history, etc. However…

Music is no exception either. Many if not most people (myself included) do not appreciate highly advanced jazz as it's 'spoken' in a language too technical for it to make sense to them.

Re: The Mind of a Mathematician

#68
post #64
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've taught at the U.S. Physics Olympiad's training camp, and also tutor high school students who want to learn a ton of physics quickly. (These kids usually find me themselves, through Google.) My most obnoxiously smart student was this 12 year old who would interrupt my lectures on classical mechanics with tricky questions I couldn't solve. The next year he came back, doing the same thing but for quantum mechanics,…

Any examples of those questions?

When covering Huygen's principle: the wavelets always give a backwards-moving wave in addition to the forwards-moving wave. In other words, Huygen's principle is time symmetric. So in real life, why don't you get the backwards wave?

When covering the principle of least action: often, applying it will give infinitely many solutions, or none at all. An example with no solutions would be the harmonic oscillator with x(0) = 0, x(t) = 0, and t not a multiple of half the period. An example with infinitely many solutions would be the principle of least time applied between the two foci of an ellipse with reflecting walls. So what happens in these cases? Does Lagrangian mechanics just not work?

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