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Microsoft Advertisement Inc.

neil.computer

201–210 of 212 posts

Re: Microsoft Advertisement Inc.

#201
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'll do whatever I want with my computer You pretty much can, I don't understand why you're upset. Windows on the other hand is not your property. Your laptop in this case is the CD, you own that. Windows is the music that you're renting.

Hmmm I think a better analogy might be, think of a car, the motor, the body and all the internal working parts are the hardwear, windows is the steering wheel, the gear shifter and the gas and break pedals of my car. Sure my car might run without them, but I'm not going anywhere. Now imagine you owned the rest of your car, but not the steering wheel, pedals or gear shifter. Now imagine the company that made those, se…

No, in this analogy you are the passenger and Windows is a driver that, despite the fact that you are paying them to drive you from point A to point B, always takes a longer route that ensures you see as many roadside billboards as possible. It also occasionally drives you home and makes you wait while it adds new parts to the car, then starts the whole trip over again.

Re: Microsoft Advertisement Inc.

#202
It's a nuclear arms race for capturing and monetizing user behavior and attention across all tech giants.

I'm generally against pervasive government regulation and oversight as a fellow tech enthusiast, but I fear where humanity is headed if these companies are left unchecked to their own devices, in an era where echo-chamber outrage amplifying newsfeed algorithms are subverting democracy as we know it.

Re: Microsoft Advertisement Inc.

#203
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article is incredibly misleading and I can't believe almost everyone on HN is taking it at face value. You've clearly made assumptions to fit your conclusion without verifying the validity of the assumptions themselves. The items you list at the top are just part of the normal telemetry subsystem and have nothing to do with advertising. Windows has an separate system for advertising and it's completely isolated…

Do you mind if I paraphrase your comment and add it to the article? Thanks for checking the privacy guide, it establishes what Microsoft officially has to say about their data collection methods. And, I should have checked it before writing the article. I am cynical of any company that is trying to impede user's ability to turn privacy related settings off. They go out of their way to make it difficult. There are no…

> Do you mind if I paraphrase your comment and add it to the article?

Sure.

> Everything is checked on by default. They go out of their way to make it difficult.

During install of recent versions of W10, there's a privacy settings dialog that comes up and allows you disable the majority of the privacy settings before installation. (https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2018/03/06/windo...)

> There are no more than 2 dozen privacy related switches in Control Panel.

There's a lot of different settings because that's what people asked for. When W10 released, a lot of privacy options were bundled under a handful of toggles and it wasn't very clear what each of them did. Now it's explicit and far easier to understand for people that actually go looking for them.

> This whole thing reeks of insiduous tracking, spying and surveillance, despite of what the privacy guide says.

I'd honestly suggest spending some time on the Microsoft Privacy portal and related pages. They go into quite a lot of detail of what each individual setting does and what the data is used for, as well as Microsoft's internal policies for data management.

These two pages are targeted towards IT peeps and I think provide the best summary if you have some time: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/privacy/configure-w... https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/privacy/windows-10-...

Your theory also doesn't make sense considering Microsoft's current market strategy as a cloud services company. Its advertisement business is barely a blip on the radar.

> ...has the risk of being hacked. I presume Microsoft has taken enough steps to anonymize personally identifiable information or as they call it PII in the circles.

Per the above link: "The principle of least privileged access guides access to diagnostic data. [...] We strive to gather only the info we need and to store it only for as long as it’s needed to provide a service or for analysis. Much of the info about how Windows and apps are functioning is deleted within 30 days"

PII might be contained within full crash dumps, however access to potentially PII-containing telemetry requires internal approval:

"If a device experiences problems that are difficult to identify or repeat using Microsoft’s internal testing, additional data becomes necessary. This data can include any user content that might have triggered the problem and is gathered from a small sample of devices that have both opted into the Full diagnostic data level and have exhibited the problem.

However, before more data is gathered, Microsoft’s privacy governance team, including privacy and other subject matter experts, must approve the diagnostics request made by a Microsoft engineer."

> Why make it difficult for user to opt-out of privacy related settings?

Given the privacy dialog shown on install, and the ability to opt-out of personalised targeting globally via a single page, what part is difficult?

> Why push Cortana across the board from "Home" to "Enterprise" editions, where no one has asked for it, no one uses it and it is impossible to get rid of?

Search was actually separated from Cortana in a recent update. It was completely integrated at some point in an effort to compete with Apple/Google but is slowly being pulled apart and hidden away in the OS as, like you said, barely anyone uses it. Fun fact, if you never pick a language for Cortana it never enables. I just have a plain search box.

> Why employ dark patterns to trick users into submitting their data? Why not make it an opt-in process as opposed to opting out?

Both of these questions are effectively asking the same thing. Because nobody would go out of their way to enable it. The data Microsoft would receive would just be a mix of "Technically competent people that would like to send Microsoft diagnostic & usage data" and "People who enabled it accidentally". Your average joe isn't going to read the descriptions of 10 toggle boxes and go to enable them. Not a great dataset when you're looking for a niche driver problems affecting 0.005% of users.

Re: Microsoft Advertisement Inc.

#204
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "a couple of dudes snooping on animals, taking pictures and analyzing them while on Safari." > I don't think the choice of the photo is irrelevant. Irrelevant. Safari isn't available on windows. Edge, Chrome or Firefox would be relevant.

Did capitalization mislead you, is it an attempt to be funny or even something else? "This article is about the type of overland journey. For the web browser, see Safari (web browser). For other uses, see Safari (disambiguation)." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safari "A safari /səˈfɑːri/ (Swahili: safari) is an overland journey, usually a trip by tourists in Africa. In the past, the trip was often a big-game hunt, bu…

Yeah I was just making a joke

Re: Microsoft Advertisement Inc.

#205
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MS didn't use their OS to get word processing and compilers. There was plenty of competition in the 80s and early 90s. MS by almost every measure had the best products in those categories.

That's bullshit. What Microsoft did is bundle Office with all computers, at no cost. They used their monopoly position in operating systems to crush wordprocessing and spreadsheet companies by bundling a free alternative that would read the competitor's file formats. Competitors, with no other source of revenue, died. Once they were dead, Office was no longer free. This is a classic example of how a company with a mo…

bullshit on your bs. Which products were better? WordPerfect was certainly not better. Borland was better in the dos days but didn't keep up. I also never saw a computer that came with free office. it's always been an addon and always been separate from Windows .

Re: Microsoft Advertisement Inc.

#206
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly still not compatible with all applications.

Maybe it’s time to find alternates? I have a really hard time imagining there’s anything other than specialized control software that won’t run on Linux and is worth that .

I do not precisely disagree; I personally have exactly zero Windows machines left. But I know people for whom that transition would mean replacing the majority of the software that they use every day, and for less-technical folks that's going to hurt.

Story time. I know a small business owner who uses WordPerfect, FileMaker (database), and who needs a Java web applet that interfaces with a hardware device and backends into a government database in order to do their job. Now, I would 100% be thrilled to move them from WordPerfect to LibreOffice, but they have 20-year-old macros that we'd have to port. Then FileMaker: I guess something could be done with sqlite? But now we're talking custom software solutions to replace something that a non-developer could drive before. And the Java applet... well, that's gonna hurt regardless, but it talks to hardware which means that it'll need drivers, and the government isn't going to support anything but the bare minimum, so that may never move.

In my experience, 90% of software is totally possible to port or replace. Unfortunately, that last 10% (games, drivers, business-critical app written for MS-DOS 6.22) tends to be what makes or breaks the migration.

Re: Microsoft Advertisement Inc.

#207
post #37

> And, Apple has lit this torch. Too bad this ends on this line. So you recommend trusting another corporation over Microsoft to be virtuous over the long term? The only OS you can truly control is well known, and it's Linux.

Linux is not the only OS you can control.

Of course there are other alternatives but in practice Linux is the most viable one in terms of support. Nobody is going to switch to Haiku.

Re: Microsoft Advertisement Inc.

#208
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are ways of making money ethically, and failing that, legislation is there to keep things in check. This is why (in most of the developed world, at least) you don't see people in the street fighting & robbing each other all the time.

Legislation (laws) doesn't (always) protect ethic principles https://keydifferences.com/difference-between-law-and-ethics... This means you can act unethically and legally at the same time.

I agree it's not 100% perfect, and things do slip through the cracks; including in cases of big tech companies that move too fast compared to legislation and so can get away with what is essentially large-scale fraud, tax evasion, privacy violations, etc.

But the idea is if the market itself cannot solve the problem and it's causing significant harm to society then legislation is supposed to step in to prevent the behaviour deemed harmful.

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