You don't understand money – and it's a good thing for Bitcoin • Hacker News Board

Re: You don't understand money – and it's a good thing for Bitcoin

#71

Post by JohnJamesRambo » Sat, Nov 16, 2019, 2:52 PM UTC

weego wrote: post #31

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or German Marks when they were worthless after WWI and bundled in huge stacks. I feel like people in “developed” countries think “this couldn’t happen to me” when time has shown us time and time again it certainly can and you will be powerless to the whims of your government. Our original poster feels the same false safety in his or her Euros. They have developed amnesia to the lessons of the recent past. Bitcoin can…

So we've been ravaged by ww3 and our money is useless. How exactly do I still have Internet access and who is running all this infrastructure to allow me to trade crypto with someone? And why are cryptocurrencies, which are also a limited resource that can't be diluted, immune to inflation?

I assume the postal service still worked in post WWI Germany? We don't have to be living in a new stone age for our money to be worthless. I assume the internet would still work in some capacity.

Re: You don't understand money – and it's a good thing for Bitcoin

#72

Post by einpoklum » Sat, Nov 16, 2019, 3:47 PM UTC

kd5bjo wrote: post #70

einpoklum wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All of the author’s core questions can be answered just as well for coins and notes as they can for bitcoin— Every greenback has a unique serial number, after all. Most money (specifically, most US dollars) are not in the form of coins or notes. See: https://www.quora.com/How-many-dollars-are-there ~1.4 Trillion USD in notes ~60 Trillion USD total coins are certainly less than notes, but I'm not sure how much less,…

This is certainly true. My point was that I see no evidence that, should bitcoin become mainstream, the situation would be any different- nothing about bitcoin prevents its use as the basis for a credit economy like notes are now and bullion coins were before them. And it’s the credit that’s making things complicated, not the central banks.

Bullion is usually not the basis for a credit economy. I remember reading Graeber's "Debt: The First 5000" about this point, but I forget the details. And if we're talking about an "illusory basis" (i.e. much more money than there is bullion) - so in a sense it doesn't matter all that much whether it's Gold or BitCoin. You won't have the distributed nature of BitCoin then, because banks would create "BitCoin-backed credit", i.e. banks create the money.

Re: You don't understand money – and it's a good thing for Bitcoin

#73

Post by knocte » Sat, Nov 16, 2019, 4:10 PM UTC

kd5bjo wrote: post #60

knocte wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's no longer "philosophy" but education and awareness. The longer bitcoin exists, the more custodial exchanges get hacked and consequentially the better knowledgeable bitcoin users we will have. You cannot bring points against bitcoin which actually happen more in centralization-backed entities than in decentralized scenarios.

There are plenty of examples of bank runs and other crises pre-regulation and pre-fiat currency, dating all the way back to the 1600s— that’s about as decentralized as you can get. If you want to argue that there’s something fundamentally different this time around, that’s fine, but I’d appreciate evidence rather than assertions. In fact, the least problematic time in terms of bank runs appears to be the years of the…

Giving me an example of decentralisation set in the 1600s? Dude... The best way to finish this convo is the way Satoshi replied once: "If you don't believe it or don't get it, I don't have the time to try to convince you, sorry"

Re: You don't understand money – and it's a good thing for Bitcoin

#74

Post by dpc_pw » Mon, Nov 18, 2019, 1:12 AM UTC

beefield wrote: post #35

dpc_pw wrote: post #6

Money is simple. Credit is complicated. And if Bitcoin is going to succeed lending Bitcoin will be normal and lead to similar behavior as in the gold standard.

This. I have never heard a remotely sensible discussion from crypto folks around following points: 1. If fractional reserve banking is bad, what or who is going to stop the appearance of that in bitcoin world? You need to understand that literally only thing you need for that is a bunch of people trusting so much one organization that they are willing to use the IOU from that as payment method. (Cough, tether, cough)…

1. There's nothing to stop fractional reserve banking. Bitcoin is just a more convenient bearer instrument (more portable, divisible, verifiable than gold), so if you don't trust a bank, it would be easier to opt out.

2. Personally I think fractional reserve banking is at very least problematic, because it leads to competitive advantage, but also eventual systemic collapse. (More about it: https://twitter.com/dpc_pw/status/1195932699141103618)

Re: You don't understand money – and it's a good thing for Bitcoin

#75

Post by Williamrussell » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 1:49 AM UTC

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