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European Investment Bank to phase out fossil fuel financing

theguardian.com

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Re: European Investment Bank to phase out fossil fuel financing

#11

Post by H8crilA »

ced wrote: post #9
H8crilA wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$XLE for those that want to pick up cheap stocks. Till there's a global solution to the energy problem we'll need oil. Existing solutions are nowhere close to being sufficient, therefore divestment will have no impact on the amount of oil burned. It's ridiculous to think that clicking a sell button on some assets will fix global warming, that's not how the world works. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_energy_consu…

> It's ridiculous to think that clicking a sell button on some assets will fix global warming, that's not how the world works. It's ridiculous to think that reduced demand for some stock will not reduce its price. More concretely, the more banks and people make gestures like this, the easier it is for politicians to reduce subsidies / increase taxes for fossil fuels, which will definitely reduce the amount of oil bur…

My point is that the stock price has nothing to do with the amount of oil burned. Exxon Mobil could trade for $0.01, doesn't matter, they will still sell oil.

The second part is true, it is shaping the narrative somewhat. We'll need much more hardcore stuff than just twiddling the narrative, though.

Re: European Investment Bank to phase out fossil fuel financing

#12

Post by H8crilA »

maest wrote: post #8
H8crilA wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$XLE for those that want to pick up cheap stocks. Till there's a global solution to the energy problem we'll need oil. Existing solutions are nowhere close to being sufficient, therefore divestment will have no impact on the amount of oil burned. It's ridiculous to think that clicking a sell button on some assets will fix global warming, that's not how the world works. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_energy_consu…

> $XLE for those that want to pick up cheap stocks. A nuance is that you don't want to buy into these stocks while people are moving away from vice stocks. However, once the trend is stabilised and there are no more marginal investors to adopt a vice-free portfolio, then you should buy all the vice stocks as they will have a more favourable discount rate.

It's already the cheapest segment of the S&P 500: https://www.gurufocus.com/sector_shiller_pe.php

Timing the exact bottom is hard.

Re: European Investment Bank to phase out fossil fuel financing

#13

Post by gruez »

ced wrote: post #9
H8crilA wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$XLE for those that want to pick up cheap stocks. Till there's a global solution to the energy problem we'll need oil. Existing solutions are nowhere close to being sufficient, therefore divestment will have no impact on the amount of oil burned. It's ridiculous to think that clicking a sell button on some assets will fix global warming, that's not how the world works. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_energy_consu…

> It's ridiculous to think that clicking a sell button on some assets will fix global warming, that's not how the world works. It's ridiculous to think that reduced demand for some stock will not reduce its price. More concretely, the more banks and people make gestures like this, the easier it is for politicians to reduce subsidies / increase taxes for fossil fuels, which will definitely reduce the amount of oil bur…

>It's ridiculous to think that reduced demand for some stock will not reduce its price.

That's the point. Stocks are priced according to discounted future earnings. if the price goes down but the future earning prospects hasn't changed, it means I can get future earnings for cheaper. In other words, my rate of return has improved.

Re: European Investment Bank to phase out fossil fuel financing

#14

Post by solarhoma »

For the past five years O&G E&P companies have been realizing significant loses in a shale driven production world. Where NA producers are quick to turn on the taps and drown the market in oil once $WTI hits $55/bbl. with this comes instability and loss of Wall Street backing. Banks are labeling this as a way to show them in a good light. I.e. ‘fight climate change.’ The actuality is that the want better returns in a more stable environment.

I apologize for poor formatting on my phone.

Re: European Investment Bank to phase out fossil fuel financing

#15

Post by jobigoud »

The contrast with the other front page article "Paypal stops payouts to pornhubs models" is interesting. On one hand we don't like it when banks use their power to implement their moral panic regarding otherwise legal activities, on the other it's nice that they use it to avoid financing things we consider bad for the commons.

Re: European Investment Bank to phase out fossil fuel financing

#16

Post by armSixtyFour »

jobigoud wrote: post #15

The contrast with the other front page article "Paypal stops payouts to pornhubs models" is interesting. On one hand we don't like it when banks use their power to implement their moral panic regarding otherwise legal activities, on the other it's nice that they use it to avoid financing things we consider bad for the commons.

My guess is there's more to it than that. I think that they have less confidence in the financial prospects of those projects as well.

Re: European Investment Bank to phase out fossil fuel financing

#17

Post by armSixtyFour »

solarhoma wrote: post #14

For the past five years O&G E&P companies have been realizing significant loses in a shale driven production world. Where NA producers are quick to turn on the taps and drown the market in oil once $WTI hits $55/bbl. with this comes instability and loss of Wall Street backing. Banks are labeling this as a way to show them in a good light. I.e. ‘fight climate change.’ The actuality is that the want better returns in a…

Exactly this, and if looks good from a social perspective that's just an added bonus.

Re: European Investment Bank to phase out fossil fuel financing

#18

Post by bildung »

jobigoud wrote: post #15

The contrast with the other front page article "Paypal stops payouts to pornhubs models" is interesting. On one hand we don't like it when banks use their power to implement their moral panic regarding otherwise legal activities, on the other it's nice that they use it to avoid financing things we consider bad for the commons.

One categorial difference is that the Paypal case is discrimination against individuals.

Re: European Investment Bank to phase out fossil fuel financing

#19

Post by Ogopogostick »

jobigoud wrote: post #15

The contrast with the other front page article "Paypal stops payouts to pornhubs models" is interesting. On one hand we don't like it when banks use their power to implement their moral panic regarding otherwise legal activities, on the other it's nice that they use it to avoid financing things we consider bad for the commons.

It's worth remembering that the commons isn't well defined either. Lots of people view the current policy proposals of environmentalism as anti-poor and handouts to the third world. Whether you agree with that framing or not, there is plenty of data that shows mitigation and not outright prevention is an equally valid strategy to climate change. What you're really saying is that it's okay this time because it's an issue you agree with, a more neutral framing would be "...it's nice that they use it to avoid financing things we consider bad."

Re: European Investment Bank to phase out fossil fuel financing

#20

Post by ATsch »

jobigoud wrote: post #15

The contrast with the other front page article "Paypal stops payouts to pornhubs models" is interesting. On one hand we don't like it when banks use their power to implement their moral panic regarding otherwise legal activities, on the other it's nice that they use it to avoid financing things we consider bad for the commons.

Not sure what's supposed to be interesting about that.

It is good when good things happen and bad when bad things happen, yes.

We don't need to lock ourselves into some kind of universal ethical conclusion here.

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