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How Egypt did (and how your government could) shut down the Internet

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Re: How Egypt did (and how your government could) shut down the Internet

#11

Post by sixtofour »

iujyhgftrgh wrote: post #10
BigZaphod wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it. All it'd take to shut down a satellite is to take over the control room on the ground and transmit a "power down" command or something. Perhaps a better approach is to work to decentralize as much of our existing infrastructure as possible. Eliminate DNS. Fundamentally change how routing occurs to become more organic. Etc. Non-trivial, to be sure, but possible, IMO, and I think it needs to happen. The goa…

The control room doesn't have to be in your country. It's tricky for anyone who isn't a superpower to remove a satelite owned and operated by another country. Distributed DNS etc doesn't really help if all the cables in and out of your country run through one building and the government owns it.

You could erect the Mother of All Tin Foil Hats over the entire country.

Re: How Egypt did (and how your government could) shut down the Internet

#12

Post by GHFigs »

It's still strange to me that the press and discussion sites all over the web are directing a lot of attention towards the idea that the US (or European democracies) would do this to itself (for reasons continually left unstated) while the evidently[1] more[2] credible[3] threat[4] of a foreign state actor doing this kind of thing to the US is readily dismissed. As if it really makes a difference to the router who turns it off.

[1]:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_Rain [2]:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_cyberattacks_on_Estonia [3]:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberattacks_during_the_2008_So... [4]:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_cyberattacks_on_Myanmar

Re: How Egypt did (and how your government could) shut down the Internet

#14

Post by eclark »

Raphael wrote: post #6

Just switch off electricity for ISP buildings.

All of the tier one carrier hotels have battery backups, diesel back ups, and contracts for thousands of gallons of fuel. Some are even looking at more interesting solutions to that.

However if you really wanted to just cause some mayhem. With a good map and a chainsaw lots is possible.

http://signalfire.org/?p=2039

Re: How Egypt did (and how your government could) shut down the Internet

#15

Post by hugh3 »

pyre wrote: post #9
BigZaphod wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it. All it'd take to shut down a satellite is to take over the control room on the ground and transmit a "power down" command or something. Perhaps a better approach is to work to decentralize as much of our existing infrastructure as possible. Eliminate DNS. Fundamentally change how routing occurs to become more organic. Etc. Non-trivial, to be sure, but possible, IMO, and I think it needs to happen. The goa…

Maybe we should create a site/wiki/working group/mailing list to discuss these issues. Otherwise it won't get talked about and never done because the corps definitely don't have incentive to do this.

You're talking about defending against the hypothetical and implausible situation where for some reason the US Government decides to turn off the internet.

I don't have any good ideas about what could possibly cause that to happen, but I'm pretty sure that if it does happen then things are sufficiently screwed up that a lack of internet access will be the least of your problems.

Re: How Egypt did (and how your government could) shut down the Internet

#16

Post by j_baker »

GHFigs wrote: post #12

It's still strange to me that the press and discussion sites all over the web are directing a lot of attention towards the idea that the US (or European democracies) would do this to itself (for reasons continually left unstated) while the evidently[1] more[2] credible[3] threat[4] of a foreign state actor doing this kind of thing to the US is readily dismissed. As if it really makes a difference to the router who tu…

It would be difficult enough for the US government to shut off the internet in the US (although I don't doubt they could do it). You can't really take a few simple DDoS attacks as an indicator that such a thing could be possible in the US. Besides that, why would they want to shut off the internet when they could probably do any number of much more violent and heinous acts with much less effort and sophistication?

Re: How Egypt did (and how your government could) shut down the Internet

#17

Post by aw3c2 »

hugh3 wrote: post #15
pyre wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we should create a site/wiki/working group/mailing list to discuss these issues. Otherwise it won't get talked about and never done because the corps definitely don't have incentive to do this.

You're talking about defending against the hypothetical and implausible situation where for some reason the US Government decides to turn off the internet. I don't have any good ideas about what could possibly cause that to happen, but I'm pretty sure that if it does happen then things are sufficiently screwed up that a lack of internet access will be the least of your problems.

Communication and the access to information is a highly important issue, especially if hell breaks loose in your country.

Re: How Egypt did (and how your government could) shut down the Internet

#18

Post by rmc »

kongqiu wrote: post #2

Would investing more in satellite-based infrastructure be one possible solution?

Yes, if you had a satellite internet modem connection, or satellite phone, you would not be cut off if the main isp was disconnected. However it's slow, like dialup, and expensive per minute.

Re: How Egypt did (and how your government could) shut down the Internet

#19

Post by pyre »

hugh3 wrote: post #15
pyre wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we should create a site/wiki/working group/mailing list to discuss these issues. Otherwise it won't get talked about and never done because the corps definitely don't have incentive to do this.

You're talking about defending against the hypothetical and implausible situation where for some reason the US Government decides to turn off the internet. I don't have any good ideas about what could possibly cause that to happen, but I'm pretty sure that if it does happen then things are sufficiently screwed up that a lack of internet access will be the least of your problems.

Though many see internet access as a luxury, it's not just a pornography delivery method. In Nazi Germany, I gather the one of the most difficult issues for underground groups was communications.

Re: How Egypt did (and how your government could) shut down the Internet

#20

Post by pyre »

rmc wrote: post #18
kongqiu wrote: post #2

Would investing more in satellite-based infrastructure be one possible solution?

Yes, if you had a satellite internet modem connection, or satellite phone, you would not be cut off if the main isp was disconnected. However it's slow, like dialup, and expensive per minute.

Huh? If your satellite ISP was disconnected you would not be cut off? Are my preconceptions of how satellite internet works way off? I thought that you were bouncing off of the satellite to your ISP which then connected you to the internet.
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