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Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

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Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#201

Post by zarkov99 »

sagichmal wrote: post #186
ngngngng wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You phrased this funny, and I think that's why you're getting downvotes since the sarcasm wasn't obvious. You're right though, what we just saw with the linux foundations tone policing and the Lindsay Shepherd situation absolutely confirm this. There is a very effective group of activists that can make life hell for you if you don't hate the same things as them with the same fervor.

This is a deeply disingenuous interpretation of events, to the extent of being a lie. Damore, Woods, and that other dude who went on a misogynist Twitter tirade for a full day, were all deliberate assholes in public. There were consequences for that. This is just and correct.

Could you please provide a link to anything that Damore might have written or said in public that would justify calling him an asshole? Because I have read his paper, listened to some of his interviews and to me he looked as far from an asshole as any human can be.

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#202

Post by fooker »

RIP

I'm one of those people who go work at Google once every few years.

The transformation of culture from about 2013 onwards has been somewhat sad to experience.

Interestingly, most people who have been continuously employed there have not felt the very slight gradient. However, the changes in culture, freedom, food quality, etc are fairly obvious when one returns after ..say.. 18 months.

Here are some semi-concrete metrics: Decreasing TGIF frequency (now gone..), 'micro kitchen' snack variety and quality, which doors in buildings you are allowed to enter from(:facepalm:), badging in for meals(also :facepalm:), weird restrictions on business flights, attempt to make everything look uniform (no candies in receptions! No decorations..), defense contracts(much publicized here), any other discretionary spending by teams.

Anything I forgot?

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#203

Post by cloverich »

rpmisms wrote: post #127
acruns wrote: post #18

I turned down an offer from Google (cloud) because I didn't want to work for a company that was so focused on politics internally. This was just after they fired Damore, not that I agree or disagree with his opinion, but because Google seems promote internal fighting. That type of culture doesn't appeal to me.

Dude, it's OK to say you agree with him. He was well-intentioned, and was trying to fix an actual problem, that spaces created by men aren't necessarily as welcoming to women. That's not wrong, even if you disagree with his approach. He was crucified because he dared to suggest that differences exist between men and women in any meaningful way.

I only passively followed the Damore fiasco and out of curiosity went and read his memo[1] just now. "that spaces created by men aren't necessarily as welcoming to women" doesn't feel like the major theme of his piece. The major theme feels like "practices that specifically promote women and non-white races are discriminatory, unfair, and it is hurting Google". I"m quite sure he was treated unfairly, but I don't think your characterization of his piece is consistent with its content.

[1]: https://firedfortruth.com/

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#204

Post by weberc2 »

sagichmal wrote: post #189
weberc2 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most moderates are fine with consequences for racism/sexism/etc, but we object to willfully misinterpreting one's political opponents as espousing racism/sexism/etc in order to justify their persecution. It's the weaponization of those consequences that we object to.

You see weaponization, I see regular old consequences.

That's fine that you see it that way; let's have a debate about that. Why do we punish people for being skeptical, for example, that discrimination is the principle cause for disparities in tech employment or the wage gap? Why is it fundamentally sexist to _merely consider_ the possibility that there are population level differences between men and women--even when those differences leave men and women equal on average (e.g., Damore)?

How can we resist racism/sexism without a basis in knowledge? And if we have that basis in knowledge, how can we verify if verification is itself racist/sexist?

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#205

Post by commandlinefan »

markovbot wrote: post #9
malvosenior wrote: post #5

I wonder if companies like Google and GitHub that actively courted activists are now regretting their decision. For a long time it was common knowledge that you would try to keep stuff like that out of the workplace. The past 10 years have been an about face to that strategy and now we're seeing more or less complete chaos internally at these previously pro-politics (some kinds of politics) workplaces. My guess is th…

To be clear, "keep politics out of the workplace" is another way of saying "I'm okay with the status quo, and if you don't like it I don't want to hear about it at work".

> "keep politics out of the workplace"

Pretty much all of the “pro-politics at the workplace” types would demand that anybody who wore a MAGA hat be fired… so I think that the people who think politics in the workplace are OK are the ones who are actually the ones maintaining the actual status quo: you can have opinions, as long as they’re the same as mine.

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#206

Post by tortasaur »

Loughla wrote: post #183
manigandham wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said "between" left and far-left, and that's the majority politics of the employees. Also capitalism has nothing to do with left-vs-right. By your definition, every corporation is right-wing by the fact that it's a corporation and all leftists want communism.

What are you honestly trying to accomplish in this thread? What is the point of all of your overgeneralizing and contradictory statements? What are you doing this for?

How is the parent comment overgeneralizing? The generalization jumping out at me is the grandparent's "all corporations are right-leaning by nature". The position of "corporations' executive decisions and internal culture can evolve separately" appears to be the nuanced one.

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#207

Post by brown9-2 »

40acres wrote: post #64

Sounds like Googlers spoiled the well. I'm not sure exactly why but Google employees always seem to be in the news about something and have leaked conversations that management had with them. In some instances the controversy is warranted (Rubin Payout, etc.) but it must be annoying from a management perspective.

I think it’s interesting that people absolve management from blame, when they actively hid details of military contracts with employees.

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#208

Post by zarkov99 »

nemo44x wrote: post #159
tanilama wrote: post #105

Nothing to see here. While most employees are chill, I would imagine Google has a disproportionation of hyper ideologists who are intolerant to different opinions and self-righteous to bring everything down to achieve personal validation. The trust is reduced, but it is both way, between employer and employees. Without that, any conversation is meaningless.

If you're an engineer at Google, you've probably had a great technical education, you feel empowered because if Google would hire you, you can assume most anyone else would too; you probably feel smart because of this and in many ways you probably are a pretty smart person. You're very well paid and compensated and you know it. There are a lot of things here that not only give someone confidence but also conviction.…

That can't be the whole story. Google is not the only provider of high status jobs for nerds. Why aren't Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, Netflix, Facebook also rife with this sort of activism?

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#209

Post by summerlight »

lucasmullens wrote: post #190
shadowgovt wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It hadn't really been practical for years to have an "all hands" with a 100,000 person company. Time constraints alone had already put pressure on the whole concept. Humans don't scale that way.

Yeah, but somehow it managed to work pretty well as a 50,000 person company. I'm not exactly sure why this number was the tipping point.

https://twitter.com/MikeIsaac/status/1195130656042496007

I don't think the number is a major factor but the media environment getting hostile against the tech sector in general. Sundar also mentioned about "a coordinated effort to share our conversations", which aligns with my observation.

Re: Google cancels TGIF weekly all-hands meetings

#210

Post by manigandham »

joshuamorton wrote: post #188
manigandham wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, nobody in this entire page has said anything like that. How did you come up with this statement? And no, the vast majority of people don't consider those characteristics to be political at all and really don't care. Come in, do work, go home, and don't hurt anyone. It's not a complicated political argument.

> Again, nobody in this entire page has said anything like that. How did you come up with this statement? Something about lying with dogs and fleas. I'm happy to listen if you elaborate on what exactly you mean by political. Though I'll caution by stating that in general, I find that most "political" issues can be phrased as consequences of ethical concerns (if there weren't underlying ethical disagreements, there wo…

There's nothing wrong with you privately expressing your concern about a project to superiors, and leaving the company if you don't agree.

When you protest against it publicly in the workplace and shout down others for as little as not vehemently agreeing with you, then we have a problem.

This is the difference between escalating concerns vs political activism, regardless of the actual issue at stake.

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