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Re: undefined

#81

Getting a lot of the same questions so I just want to address them. 1) We will not receive another offer, there are no other offers possible. I can't fully explain this without blowing my cover, but suffice it to say we're very confident in this. It revolves around our extremely niche market. 2) A huge part of the reason we're afraid of blowing this deal is what I just stated in #1, since there are really no other ex…

Reading between the lines, it sounds as if your market might have some overlap with, or technical dependency on, the acquirer's market and ecosystem--perhaps even only allowed to thrive at their pleasure. From the acquirer's motivation, it could be that they're trying to fill a niche they have no desire to invest in organically, especially if there's not a lot of growth in that niche.

If it's as you say, I think the question to answer is "Can we stand to be employees again, in particular, as employees of this company?" If you can, then this starts to look more like a job offer, in which case you need to negotiate more cash up front and more favorable vesting terms. (This may also explain why the future employer says the tone will change if bankers get involved. They probably see this as a talent acquisition with revenue attached. Getting a lawyer involved makes sense no matter what.)

If you can't see yourself as an employee, then my guess is that you're fearful that your market is going to go away (and the acquirer may suspect that you're road kill). In which case the thing to do is start trying to diversify outside the niche as the current niche revenue stream winds down. Is there time to do that?

End of rampant speculation. Good luck.

Re: undefined

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, he said that they were being courted by attorneys and bankers who want the business. I understand why you wouldn't want to just take the first person who calls you. But he also asked if they should involve their attorney, which implies to me that they have one (they'd have to, right?). It just blows my mind that they're considering accepting an offer for possibly tens of millions and they haven't asked their atto…

Fully agreed, I also completely fail to understand how they got this far without a set of good advisors.

Either they do have a good set of advisors and they're just being thorough by asking HN (free advice from smart people, what's not to like?) or you have a new datapoint about the necessity of advisors.

Re: undefined

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To me, this would be enough to immediately reject the offer. To me that would be reason enough to make sure I negotiated the deal in such a way that if the company fires us that our stock will vest instantly. > Any time someone tries to convince you to not consult your advisors, run away immediately. No, get advisors anyway. If the deal is good they might be lowballing them anyway and they're scared the other party…

To me that would be reason enough to make sure I negotiated the deal... Sure. By "reject the offer" I mean to reject that offer, not that the offer couldn't be revised to become acceptable. If the deal is good they might be lowballing them anyway and they're scared the other party finds out by how much. It might be a good deal, but trying to convince someone to not consult advisors indicates to me a certain lack of e…

> It might be a good deal, but trying to convince someone to not consult advisors indicates to me a certain lack of ethics. As a general rule I don't think it's good to make deals with people you don't trust.

That's an, er, interesting rule. A big part of modern financial and legal infra-structure is designed so that we can make business with people we don't trust. If you do business only with you people you can trust then you might as well live like a hermit.

Re: undefined

#84
Buy the services of a real financial advisor and assume that, after sale, that's it: you will have to personally disengage from the company (e.g. forget your big ideas you want to work on). Nobody is conceivably making anyone an 8 figure offer to get a management team eager to pursue their big ideas. The faster you can exit the more you'll maximize your win.

Take the exit unless you are already rich. Get the help of a good financial advisor and lawyer to make the most of it.

Re: undefined

#85

This looks like classical negotiation tactics from people knowing how to play hardball. They try to take control of the situation by setting limits to the offer. YOU DON'T HAVE TO ACCEPT THESE LIMITS !!! THIS IS A CLASSICAL NEGOTIATION TRAP NEWBIES FALL INTO !!! THEY WILL TRY TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE THAT SURRENDERING TO ANY OF YOUR COUNTER REQUESTS IS A VALUABLE CONCESSION. IT IS NOT. THEY HAVE SET THE OFFER FAR TOO LOW…

Listen to this guy. I've been lucky enough to go through this process before, and patience and confidence that it will be alright if the deal falls through is your best asset. Keep a cool head, keep running your business well, and remember that their initial offer that you've received is likely nothing like the final offer you will have on the table if you negotiate based upon this confidence.

I definitely would say be careful about "shopping around" as others have said -- this can be effective but often times as long as the other party knows that you're capable of shopping around successfully this can apply just as much pressure without poisioning the well of the negotiations. If you're shopping around, it's hard to tell the person who is looking to buy you that you sincerely think they are the best place for you to continue on your startup's mission.

On the terms themselves: first, make sure you have something in there that will accelerate if you get terminated without cause. This is pretty much standard. Second, having no realized stock or cash at close is absolutely insane, particularly if you have a profitable business that has been around for 5 years and you're expected to stick around for 4 years. Make it clear that if you really are going to give them your business and also 4 more years of your time you expect to be well compensated at close and over those 4 years.

Re: undefined

#87
Here are questions I'd think about:

* Why are they interested in your company? If it's technology, would others be interested in the same technology? What are alternatives to your tech? Scarcity and competition will drive up prices. A good investment banker can help you identify these opportunities and get the most out of your situation. If it's for the market opportunity, you want to consider the buy-it versus build-it quandary they are evaluating and keep this in mind as you negotiate.

* Are you through the risky part of you business? When you start a new venture, there is a huge amount of risk you are assuming, particularly on the front that the business will actually work. If you've proven the business will work for your customers and the business model will be profitable, you're in a much higher position of leverage. If your business is not clear of risk yet, you should keep this in mind.

* What is your chance of success at this company and how will it affect how much cash you'll be able to extract from the deal/stocks? Will you be caught up with red tape? Is it going to be like delicious at Yahoo? Will you have control over your future?

* Are you planning for the worst case scenario? If they could fire you on day 2 and leave you with almost nothing, I'd never agree to it. Contracts and agreements should be planned with the mindset that if things can go wrong, they will go wrong.

* How can you get more money sooner? A mostly stock deal that was vested over 4 years the deal seems crazy for me personally unless it'll set you up for life. You've gotten a taste of entrepreneurship. You have been genetically mutated forever and will never be normal again. You'll likely get the bug to start something else in a year or 2... or sooner so keep that into account when thinking through the deal.

Good luck.

Re: undefined

#88

Remember the key to negotiations: what's your best alternative to a negotiated agreement? In this case it sounds like you don't need this deal at all -- you're highly profitable, right? Maybe there's some concern that if you walk away, this company could build their own whatever-it-is and beat you in the market, but it will take them some time and is not a sure thing for them. The other thing to be aware of is the an…

The problem with asking "What is your BATNA" is that these things often evolve organically during discussions. It's good to have a baseline, but it's really dumb to go back to the BATNA for a thumbs up/thumbs down determined after the initial offer after discussions have gone on for some time.

The different parameters of the deal that get tweaked along the way are often not considered in the beginning, and what was considered unfair at the beginning may, by the end, be considered fair when all the parameters are in place. The negotiation process is a discovery process for both parties and you're not in the same mindset at the beginning than you are at the end. It may turn out that you're willing to sell at the end for less than you thought, simply because the outlook at the new company looks so great that you think it's a fair deal. This isn't you being a sucker, this is you responding to new information. You being a sucker is when you know you're not happy but you cave anyway.. you'll know the difference between this and an academic difference between your expectations and the final negotiated deal that really doesn't matter.

Re: undefined

#89
post #85

This looks like classical negotiation tactics from people knowing how to play hardball. They try to take control of the situation by setting limits to the offer. YOU DON'T HAVE TO ACCEPT THESE LIMITS !!! THIS IS A CLASSICAL NEGOTIATION TRAP NEWBIES FALL INTO !!! THEY WILL TRY TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE THAT SURRENDERING TO ANY OF YOUR COUNTER REQUESTS IS A VALUABLE CONCESSION. IT IS NOT. THEY HAVE SET THE OFFER FAR TOO LOW…

Listen to this guy. I've been lucky enough to go through this process before, and patience and confidence that it will be alright if the deal falls through is your best asset. Keep a cool head, keep running your business well, and remember that their initial offer that you've received is likely nothing like the final offer you will have on the table if you negotiate based upon this confidence. I definitely would say…

> Second, having no realized stock or cash at close is absolutely insane

Yes, especially given the situation as described.

There is an enormous amount of really good stuff in this thread if I get around to it I'll summarize it in to an article, it's quite the goldmine.

Re: undefined

#90
post #36

Congrats! I think that you can be upfront with them. "Look, there are a couple of things that make us uneasy about this deal. Mainly, we feel the offer is a little low and that the vesting schedule is a little long. The combination of the two makes this a very difficult deal to consider. I am not saying we don't want to consider it, but just that since we assume you are wanting to work with us for at least the next 4…

That's pretty good. Instead of "a little low", say "low". Instead of "a little long", say "long". Don't qualify. That way it's even stronger. "We feel the offer is too low and that the vesting schedule is too long."

Ok, I'll bite. Say "extremely low considering " and "well beyond the length we'd be willing to do because we've already spent N years at this and have built value you'd be getting on day one."
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