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Upgrading Messaging on Android in the U.S. with RCS

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Re: Upgrading Messaging on Android in the U.S. with RCS

#151

Post by kelnos »

wlesieutre wrote: post #23
pathartl wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's an industry agreed standard of an implementation similar to iMessage without end to end encryption. It was created by many of the carriers as an upgrade to SMS.

It's an industry standard, but if Apple doesn't implement it in iOS then it's only useable from one Android device to another. That effectively makes it into crappy iMessage for Android. Only works within one OS ecosystem, but it's unencrypted, managed by your carrier, and limited to the one cellular device itself instead of also working directly on your wifi-connected tablet and computer. It would be nice of Apple t…

> It would be nice of Apple to support this if it's an improvement over SMS/MMS

I think another issue is that Apple just doesn't care about the user experience of anyone who isn't using an iPhone, to the point that I feel like they pretend non-Apple products don't even exist. I bet many iPhone users would like to be able to send encrypted messages and non-horribly-pixelated video to their friends who use Android (for example), but Apple acts like they don't even consider that as a use case.

Re: Upgrading Messaging on Android in the U.S. with RCS

#152

Post by xenadu02 »

toast0 wrote: post #137
awill wrote: post #110

RCS has completely blown up in Google's face. They should have just copied Apple and created gMessage

They did: Google Talk/gChat, Hangouts, Allo, Duo, Wave (I think it did messaging, I don't really know). There's probably more I forgot. Google Talk notably supported tons of mobile platforms and was XMPP based and had federation, before they started down their path of reinventing messaging over and over.

Allo, Duo, Wave, Google Talk, gChat, Google Voice, Google Buzz, Google+ Messenger, Spaces, Hangouts, Hangouts Chat.

I think that's all of them?

Re: Upgrading Messaging on Android in the U.S. with RCS

#153

Post by kelnos »

Mindwipe wrote: post #12
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #2

I am very curious how carriers will respond to Google deciding to preempt them by pushing an app update to redirect all text messaging straight to Google servers versus the carriers. Google seemed like it was respecting the carriers' involvement, right up until carriers announced plans to build their own RCS system that didn't give Google the data. Suddenly, Google is turning on RCS? Presumably Google was hoping it c…

To be honest, I think they might find after it's turned on that the limitation to the Google Messages app (which is not the default on Samsung devices and hence represents very little in terms of market share) doesn't move the needle at all and makes very little difference. Certainly, the impact of turning it on on the UK market seems to have been zero. If Google follows through by enabling it system wide in future O…

I do use the Google Messages app, but I don't plan to enable RCS any time soon. The main reason is that I use the "SMS Backup & Restore" app to back up my SMSes & MMSes, and it's unable to back up RCS messages because they're stored in a separate DB that currently has no system API access.

So chalk that up as perhaps another reason why some people won't "upgrade".

Re: Upgrading Messaging on Android in the U.S. with RCS

#154

Post by paride5745 »

OkGoDoIt wrote: post #54
AcerbicZero wrote: post #46

There was a time when I really thought Google was going to shake things up. Nexus Phones, Google Fiber, Google Fi, etc all sounded awesome. I bought a Nexus 5, switched to Fi, went through the super fun process of mixing around my google voice numbers, (breaking all kinds of stuff) but eventually I was mostly setup and functional. I'd lost some core parts of gVoice, but I figured it was just a matter of time before i…

Exactly my experience. I finally bit the bullet and switched to the Apple side. There are things I miss from android but I trust Apple not to self sabotage much more than I trust Google these days. Which is weird, and exactly the opposite of the feeling I had 5 years ago.

I made the switch a month ago, and while I miss some things from Android (e.g. a clean way to change default apps, and a nice share menu/framework), the overall experience is so much better I am regretting not switching two years ago with a iPhone SE, instead of getting my previous One Plus 5.

And regarding Messaging, in EU the default is pretty much Whatsapp anyway, with some pockets of Viber and Telegram, so iMessage or Google Hangout was never a real option here.

Re: Upgrading Messaging on Android in the U.S. with RCS

#155

Post by Daniel_sk »

dmead wrote: post #48
AcerbicZero wrote: post #46

There was a time when I really thought Google was going to shake things up. Nexus Phones, Google Fiber, Google Fi, etc all sounded awesome. I bought a Nexus 5, switched to Fi, went through the super fun process of mixing around my google voice numbers, (breaking all kinds of stuff) but eventually I was mostly setup and functional. I'd lost some core parts of gVoice, but I figured it was just a matter of time before i…

I guess you're on apple stuff then? my nexus 6 just broke and im on an old 5x thats barely funtional. the pixels all look atrocious with no end in sight.

The 5X is probably the worst Nexus ever, it was a low end device that is so frustrating to use that it probably made many people to switch to iPhone :-).

Re: Upgrading Messaging on Android in the U.S. with RCS

#156

Post by hocuspocus »

tuxracer wrote: post #149
toast0 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did: Google Talk/gChat, Hangouts, Allo, Duo, Wave (I think it did messaging, I don't really know). There's probably more I forgot. Google Talk notably supported tons of mobile platforms and was XMPP based and had federation, before they started down their path of reinventing messaging over and over.

Sure they created a lot of apps but they never replicated THE key feature of iMessage which is seamless SMS fallback within the same app. You don't have to even think about "Oh this person doesn't use such and such app" Allo came the closest but messages sent to phone numbers not on Allo were sent through some proxy number so the recipient ended up getting the message as from some random google phone number. RCS is t…

> Sure they created a lot of apps but they never replicated THE key feature of iMessage which is seamless SMS fallback within the same app. You don't have to even think about "Oh this person doesn't use such and such app"

To be fair, while Google certainly could have had a better strategy, replicating Apple's would probably have been a failure.

For several reasons, iMessage's success is very US-centric. SMS fall-back is really not an option in countries where unlimited SMS isn't the norm. Google should have tried harder to acquire Whatsapp, or at least grab another big fish in this space (like Viber).

RCS is going to benefit carriers more than Google, since they might claim back some of the IM traffic. Google realizes it can at least try to control the app (Messages) which will be deployed to most low and mid-range Android phones, that are running stock or close to stock Android.

Re: Upgrading Messaging on Android in the U.S. with RCS

#157

Post by tipsysquid »

grzm wrote: post #143
mantap wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iMessage is literally the single most important selling point of iPhones in the US. Apple is never going to do that.

> "iMessage is literally the single most important selling point of iPhones in the US." Given the lack of emphasis Apple puts on iMessage in their marketing, it seems unlikely it's the single most important selling point. On the opening page for the newest iPhone, it's mentioned in a single sentence in a paragraph on Security down near the bottom of the page, hardly pride of place. https://www.apple.com/iphone-11-pro…

iMessage is the implied feature that Apple never has to mention but everyone knows about.

They have no incentive to bring it up more, the green bubbles are burned into the psyche of every Apple user.

Re: Upgrading Messaging on Android in the U.S. with RCS

#158

Post by ericmay »

what_ever wrote: post #118
cookiecaper wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the sentiment of being down on Google, but I just bought a Pixel 4 XL to replace my Pixel XL. They're not perfect, but they're phones that I can get, unlock, root, and actually have some sense of ownership over without any shenanigans. Why unlock and root? Because I can take full-disk images and restore the phone to an exact bit-for-bit copy. I can use apps like TitaniumBackup and bring over app+data pie…

I think "just works" is way overblown. My friend just got a new iPhone 11 upgrading from 6s. FaceId is great, but you HAVE to swipe up after you unlock. There is no option, no setting to just jump to the home screen. Does it "just work"? I guess if that's the definition of working. It's been just a week and she is can't live with it. Other "just works" - always deep link to Apple Maps, Safari and other Apple apps. Ho…

> FaceId is great, but you HAVE to swipe up after you unlock.

No you just swipe up. You don’t unlock and then do something, you just do. That’s the whole point. When I pick up my iPhone I just swipe up. The unlocking of the phone is something that just happens to happen. You don’t pick up the phone “wait” for it to unlock, and then swipe to the home screen. That defeats the whole purpose.

Re: Upgrading Messaging on Android in the U.S. with RCS

#159

Post by tw04 »

what_ever wrote: post #124
tw04 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No offense but it shows you haven't actually used one. By default any notifications on the phone are locked down. I can see I got a text message but I can't see the info. If I look at the phone it shows who the text is from and the contents of the text (or whatever notification we're talking about). If I swipe up I can use the phone. This experience is so far above and beyond anything google has offered to date I don…

> This experience is so far above and beyond anything google has offered to date I don't even know where to begin. I know about notifications being hidden when locked and expanded/shown only when you unlock. On Android, you can hide notification details from certain apps and show the details for others. For some apps I am okay to not worry about seeing the details of the notifications without unlocking the device. I…

>I actually hate FaceID and like fingerprint unlock better so I don't really care about that. But by so far behind, you mean not caring if the eyes are open, sure they are far behind.

I guess it doesn't really matter if you prefer touch unlock, it's gone from the Pixel 4 with no signs of ever coming back. But with a really, REALLY bad implementation. Oh, someone can murder me and unlock my $1,000+ phone? Solid decision by that product manager...

>You brought up other issues with Android/Pixel but conveniently forgot to respond how iOS is crippling options itself. Don't even want to start with all browsers being wrappers of Safari.

I'm more than happy to give up a little choice in exchange for not having every aspect of my life uploaded to google's servers with a promise they won't do anything I don't like with it.

Re: Upgrading Messaging on Android in the U.S. with RCS

#160

Post by flattone »

JohnFen wrote: post #106
nullwarp wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pinephone will be my next phone, ubports on nexus 5 has been pretty good too. That said I feel like we're going into this weird place where you have to have a cell phone even though every day i feel like wanting to have one less and less.

> That said I feel like we're going into this weird place where you have to have a cell phone even though every day i feel like wanting to have one less and less. I hear you. I reached that place a couple of years ago. My current smartphone probably has 2 or 3 years of life left in it, so I'm considering that as a deadline for coming up with an alternate plan. In thinking about it, the main thing I like about having…

>First, I badly want out of the Android ecosystem, so I going to carry a real pocket computer that runs real Linux.

Contender: https://pocket.popcorncomputer.com/

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