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If you're busy, you're doing something wrong (2011)

calnewport.com

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Re: If you're busy, you're doing something wrong (2011)

#81

Post by bigred100 »

csallen wrote: post #56
piazz wrote: post #19

It does indeed seem like the arrow of causality may be backwards here. Many people I know who are truly naturally talented are relaxed because their work does not subjectively feel difficult to them. Yes, they push themselves hard and strive constantly to improve. But when the nature of your work matches the contours of your mind perfectly, it's not really work – it's purpose. In this zone you can feel yourself excel…

This doesn't seem to match what the article says. It's not saying that the elite players feel relaxed, nor is it saying that they don't need to force themselves to study. Rather, it's saying that they studied exactly as much as the lesser players, and that they did so with more discipline, both by spending more time on deliberate/hard practice, and by strictly scheduling their practice sessions.

I’m not sure thatvthe same principal doesn’t apply. For example, by the time I take advanced calculus in college, if I already know a huge chunk of the material and have strong mathematical maturity, I can spend more of my time on “the hard parts” without it stressing me as much as if they were harder for me.

Re: If you're busy, you're doing something wrong (2011)

#82

Post by eagerToLearn »

darawk wrote: post #43
silvestrov wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In what sense is that a myth? That Harvard provided a better education than his High School and that leaving Hardvard is someting only loosers do.

Nobody goes to Harvard for the education. They go for the degree. The thing he abandoned was the credential - and that his high school did not give him.

I've always wondered. Do you think someone studying Medicine or Mech. Eng. at Harvard wouldn't get a higher quality education than what many public colleges provide ?

Re: If you're busy, you're doing something wrong (2011)

#83

Post by hibbelig »

caseymarquis wrote: post #9

Seems like a bit of a tail wagging the dog situation. How do we know the more relaxed/organized schedule leads to success, and not that success leads to a more relaxed/organized schedule? This reminds me of some other advice I remember reading: No level of hard work or organization will substitute for talent and opportunity, and nearly all success stories to the contrary are missing key facts. ie Myth: Michael Jordan…

> How do we know the more relaxed/organized schedule leads to success, and not that success leads to a more relaxed/organized schedule?

In the article, they looked at university students, prior to success. Of course this meant they had to predict the future, and they did this by asking the professors and by self-selection: The assumption was that music students who study to become teachers are average performers whereas music students who study to become performers and whose professors think they are great are also in fact going to be great.

Re: If you're busy, you're doing something wrong (2011)

#84

Post by bpatel576 »

The article brings about some really good points. I find myself sitting down and studying without deliberate intent, which leads to countless wasted hours in my life. I think this is in part because you need to have some fundamentals down in order to actively learn, but mostly because it's just that much more work to actually do the core work.

Re: If you're busy, you're doing something wrong (2011)

#85

Post by Kye »

caseymarquis wrote: post #9

Seems like a bit of a tail wagging the dog situation. How do we know the more relaxed/organized schedule leads to success, and not that success leads to a more relaxed/organized schedule? This reminds me of some other advice I remember reading: No level of hard work or organization will substitute for talent and opportunity, and nearly all success stories to the contrary are missing key facts. ie Myth: Michael Jordan…

See also: writers/musicians/artists/etc who talk about the hard work behind their success while omitting the part where their partner provided for them while they focused on that instead of working for someone else to pay the bills.

They might have made it anyway, but there's a good chance all the stress and worry from providing for themselves in the modern economy would have taken all their focus and energy for starting a creative career. I've seen too many independent ambitions crushed under unpredictable automated schedules, wage theft, repair and medical bills, and cascading overdraft fees.

Re: If you're busy, you're doing something wrong (2011)

#86

Post by ta0987 »

eagerToLearn wrote: post #82
darawk wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody goes to Harvard for the education. They go for the degree. The thing he abandoned was the credential - and that his high school did not give him.

I've always wondered. Do you think someone studying Medicine or Mech. Eng. at Harvard wouldn't get a higher quality education than what many public colleges provide ?

One of my professors at an ivy would occasionally at the end of a lecture jokingly say something like, "ok here's what I think about all this, this five minutes is what you're paying 30 grand a year for so pay attention, everything else I've said today you could have read in the textbook. Nobody actually uses this algorithm, if you need it you're already overloaded, people just buy more capacity before utilization gets this high."

At the undergrad level I think the main benefit of a high end school is simply being grouped with other high end students and so getting a curriculum tailored for you. As if the Honors and AP classes in high school were only available in a few schools that were selective and more expensive.

I don't think this is completely true but I think there is a lot of truth to it... you go to fancy schools for the other fancy students as much as anything else.

Point being, at the undergrad level Harvard isn't better because it's Haaaard-vard, it's better because their curriculum is more advanced, which they can do because they have sufficient concentration of high-talent students who can handle it.

Re: If you're busy, you're doing something wrong (2011)

#87

Post by Spooky23 »

caseymarquis wrote: post #9

Seems like a bit of a tail wagging the dog situation. How do we know the more relaxed/organized schedule leads to success, and not that success leads to a more relaxed/organized schedule? This reminds me of some other advice I remember reading: No level of hard work or organization will substitute for talent and opportunity, and nearly all success stories to the contrary are missing key facts. ie Myth: Michael Jordan…

The “elite” people in this story aren’t relaxing more, they have their shit together and plan. They report that they work the same but probably actually work more because they are dedicating blocks of time.

Working smart, hard is how you get value from hard work. Good luck and timing manner, but fortune favors the bold.

Re: If you're busy, you're doing something wrong (2011)

#88

Post by jedberg »

darawk wrote: post #42
badlucklottery wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Lots of people had access to computers at that time. More or less unfettered access during middle school in the late 60s?: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/24/bill-gates-got-what-he-neede... "Lots" isn't a scientific term but I still don't think it fits here. He was probably one of a few people at the time to have a few years of in-depth experience before leaving high school. I'd call it a "myth of omission". It's techn…

Certainly everyone else at his high school could have been doing what he was doing. I'm sure this wasn't the only high school like this, though the number may have been small.

He went to one of the most elite high schools in the country, and in fact his cofounder went there too.

Re: If you're busy, you're doing something wrong (2011)

#89

Post by LudwigNagasena »

hibbelig wrote: post #83
caseymarquis wrote: post #9

Seems like a bit of a tail wagging the dog situation. How do we know the more relaxed/organized schedule leads to success, and not that success leads to a more relaxed/organized schedule? This reminds me of some other advice I remember reading: No level of hard work or organization will substitute for talent and opportunity, and nearly all success stories to the contrary are missing key facts. ie Myth: Michael Jordan…

> How do we know the more relaxed/organized schedule leads to success, and not that success leads to a more relaxed/organized schedule? In the article, they looked at university students, prior to success. Of course this meant they had to predict the future, and they did this by asking the professors and by self-selection: The assumption was that music students who study to become teachers are average performers wher…

So students that know they are not going to be great study to become teachers. Very smart of them.

Re: If you're busy, you're doing something wrong (2011)

#90

Post by babygoat »

jonathanstrange wrote: post #64
caseymarquis wrote: post #9

Seems like a bit of a tail wagging the dog situation. How do we know the more relaxed/organized schedule leads to success, and not that success leads to a more relaxed/organized schedule? This reminds me of some other advice I remember reading: No level of hard work or organization will substitute for talent and opportunity, and nearly all success stories to the contrary are missing key facts. ie Myth: Michael Jordan…

There is a false dichotomy here. Talented people who have seized the right opportunity can get overwhelmed or disorganized like everyone else. I've always assumed that all those tips for getting organized, getting this done, etc., are primarily intended for talented people who otherwise already know what they're doing. > No level of hard work or organization will substitute for talent and opportunity I find that very…

Why doubtful? Bill Gates is incredibly talented, and being in the right place at the right time is more or less the definition of opportunity.
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