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One with Vim

invisibletheory.com

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Re: One with Vim

#121

Post by jussij »

Groxx wrote: post #91
jussij wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW I'm the author of the Zeus programmer's editor and it can import VS solutions files and once imported you can build and compile all from inside the editor. Zeus also does a limited amount of intellisensing, but naturally the intellisensing is nowhere near good as that found in VS. But the code navigation is not too back. Zeus also has full MSDN integration and it can actually do context sensitive queries of the…

I'll be happy to give it a shot. I'm using a Web Site + solution for my current job though, know if it handles that? They're a bit weird. I'll certainly give it a try for more "normal" .NET coding, there's a lot of utility code to be written :)

> I'm using a Web Site + solution for my current job though, know if it handles that?

To be honest I'm not really sure. The big test would be to see if Zeus manages to import the solution file (i.e. from the Workpsace, Import menu).

This import has only been tested for 2005, 2008 and 2010 C# and C++ projects.

If it doesn't feel free to send me a bug report.

> I'll certainly give it a try for more "normal" .NET coding, there's a lot of utility code to be written :)

These are the three 'one off' steps needed to get the Visual Studio compiler to run inside Zeus

http://www.zeusedit.com/zforum/viewtopic.php?t=2707

Re: One with Vim

#122

Post by Groxx »

jussij wrote: post #121
Groxx wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll be happy to give it a shot. I'm using a Web Site + solution for my current job though, know if it handles that? They're a bit weird. I'll certainly give it a try for more "normal" .NET coding, there's a lot of utility code to be written :)

> I'm using a Web Site + solution for my current job though, know if it handles that? To be honest I'm not really sure. The big test would be to see if Zeus manages to import the solution file (i.e. from the Workpsace, Import menu). This import has only been tested for 2005, 2008 and 2010 C# and C++ projects. If it doesn't feel free to send me a bug report. > I'll certainly give it a try for more "normal" .NET coding…

Tried it a little bit, and I'll experiment more as I get time. Importing the solution which contained the web site only loaded the other "actual" project in the solution, unfortunately. I can poke at it a bit more and see if I can get more into it.

One of the first things I noticed: apparently a couple of your regexes are off in C#, for VS2008 at least. Typed interfaces come up as "T" instead of the interface, and it would be immensely more useful to have the class browser have information about the parameters of functions. I've got a ton of overloads, and they're note even in any useful order, as far as I can tell.

Re: One with Vim

#123

Post by roel_v »

Groxx wrote: post #119
roel_v wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the intellisense is the complaint, nothing beats the Visual Assist plugin. VS10's intellisense is better than what it used to be but still nowhere near VA. Also, VS10's WPF-based UI is a nightmare, but that's another discussion...

Finally took a look at Visual Assist, as I've heard about it but never looked at it. That's very impressive. How much does it affect VS's speed on a fairly normal system?

I'd say 'It doesn't', which is objectively impossible but does represent my perception. In 7 or 8 years of using it, I have never found it to be a problem. This is with working on C++ projects with a total size (including third party libraries like boost) of around 400 megabytes of source code. The parsing of code happens behind the scenes; sometimes (when starting VS after a major update from source control or something) you see in the status bar 'Visual Assist: updating databases' or something like that, and sometimes the syntax highlighting takes a few seconds to kick in, but again I've never been annoyed or irritated with delays for which I had any reason to believe that they had anything to do with Visual Assist.

Of course Visual Studio still does its own parsing in the background, for example for the class browser. VA provides something similar, maybe I should use that one and see if there's a way to turn off the Visual Studio Intellisense. It is my subjective impression that this one does sometimes slow down the IDE itself.

My only complaints are the recent price hikes: 249$ -_- ? Those are getting above discretionary purchasing power and although I guess there is some effective productivity gain, it's very hard to quantify and therefore justify... Especially when other people don't want it, because then if you do want it, you look like a wuss who can't hold his own without having his hand held by pretty colors (simplifying of course but let's face it, this is what it looks like from the outside).

Re: One with Vim

#124

Post by watchdogtimer »

bch wrote: post #27

I'm aware I may be too pedantic, but it bothers me when people seem to completely conflate vim with vi. For example, -vi- was released in 1976, and vim not until 1991, despite what the article claims. In the meantime, I'll keep happily using nvi, and keeping the kids off my lawn. edit: links... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vim_%28text_editor%29

And I thought I was the only person left who still uses nvi...

Re: One with Vim

#125

Post by bch »

watchdogtimer wrote: post #124
bch wrote: post #27

I'm aware I may be too pedantic, but it bothers me when people seem to completely conflate vim with vi. For example, -vi- was released in 1976, and vim not until 1991, despite what the article claims. In the meantime, I'll keep happily using nvi, and keeping the kids off my lawn. edit: links... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vim_%28text_editor%29

And I thought I was the only person left who still uses nvi...

NetBSD ships w/ nvi in-base. I don't have any other *BSD systems available at the moment, but according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvi#Credits_and_distribution it's the default in at least the "big 3" BSD distros (Net, Free, and Open; I don't know about DragonFly).

There are more than just two of us nvi users, and we're in good company :)

edit: This suggests DragonFlyBSD is nvi too, which isn't really surprising: http://leaf.dragonflybsd.org/cgi/web-man?command=vi

Re: One with Vim

#126

Post by SkyMarshal »

limmeau wrote: post #97
SkyMarshal wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And don't forget eclim, a Vim front-end for Eclipse (or an Eclipse back-end for Vim): http://eclim.org/

Sounds exciting but a little scary. Have you used it?

Not exactly. I tried setting up a really complicated system with Eclipse running as a server in a VM and my local Vim serving as the head to it, but haven't gotten that working yet.

I prefer Vim as the frontend, but was hoping to add Eclipse's code correction and refactoring to it. But that's also the most complicated of the three options, and least well supported right now.

Re: One with Vim

#127

Post by jussij »

Groxx wrote: post #122
jussij wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm using a Web Site + solution for my current job though, know if it handles that? To be honest I'm not really sure. The big test would be to see if Zeus manages to import the solution file (i.e. from the Workpsace, Import menu). This import has only been tested for 2005, 2008 and 2010 C# and C++ projects. If it doesn't feel free to send me a bug report. > I'll certainly give it a try for more "normal" .NET coding…

Tried it a little bit, and I'll experiment more as I get time. Importing the solution which contained the web site only loaded the other "actual" project in the solution, unfortunately. I can poke at it a bit more and see if I can get more into it. One of the first things I noticed: apparently a couple of your regexes are off in C#, for VS2008 at least. Typed interfaces come up as "T" instead of the interface, and it…

> Importing the solution which contained the web site only loaded the other "actual" project in the solution, unfortunately.

That is what I had feared. It looks like Zeus will need to be tweaked to understand this type of solution file.

> I can poke at it a bit more and see if I can get more into it.

One thing you could try is opening an explorer window and then just drag and drop one of your source code folders onto the Zeus workspace panel.

Zeus will parse the structure of the folder that was dropped and add all files that if finds to the project/workspace.

> One of the first things I noticed: apparently a couple of your regexes are off in C#, for VS2008 at least.

The use of a regexp to identify functions is a Zeus feature that dates back to one of the very early versions and is no longer the primary method of identifying functions.

What should have happened is for Zeus to create a tags database for all the files in the project/workspace and it then uses that tags information to display the function list.

But in this case since the solution was not imported correctly, the workspace is empty of files. As such Zeus reverted back to the older regep approach to identify the functions.

And as you suggest, the regexp that it used is almost certain to be out of date since, it was probably written even before the time of C#.

> it would be immensely more useful to have the class browser have information about the parameters of functions.

Adding the current file (or all the project files) to the workspace should result in a lot more information being seen in the class browser.

The class browser shows the contents of the tags database and if it is not full then it means the tagger is not understanding the code, but for C# that should not be the case.

Re: One with Vim

#128

Post by georgieporgie »

semanticist wrote: post #79
georgieporgie wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as long as you're only going to be coding on Windows. In the past, I've used VS for editing PHP, which I then deployed to the server using a keyboard shortcut. I understand what you're saying, but I want to point out that VS can be used as an editor even when the target platform isn't MS.

But can you use it as an editor when the target platform is humans, that is, when you're not writing code at all?

Sure, why not?

I wouldn't start up a VS instance just to edit text, but if I have one running, it's my editor of choice.

Re: One with Vim

#129

Post by georgieporgie »

sixtofour wrote: post #98
georgieporgie wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as long as you're only going to be coding on Windows. In the past, I've used VS for editing PHP, which I then deployed to the server using a keyboard shortcut. I understand what you're saying, but I want to point out that VS can be used as an editor even when the target platform isn't MS.

Yes I'm sure it can. What I'm curious about, is it so good an editor that people commonly use it for general text editing for non-code text? I know Vim and Emacs gets used like that a lot, maybe Notepad too.

As I said to another commenter, yes, as long as I have a VS instance running, it's my text editor of choice.

The startup time is too long for off-hand editing (I suppose this is hardware dependent). In that case, I'll open Notepad for quick to-do lists, or vi for non-line-ending-mangling tasks. It's pretty unusual for me not to have VS running, though.

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