Live data from Hacker News

The MLM Epidemic in 13 Maps

myradvocate.com

61–70 of 106 posts

Re: The MLM Epidemic in 13 Maps

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you craft a law to make this illegal though? And then how do you enforce the law? How do you bring these companies to justice? A fool and his money are easily parted. If those students didn't blow their tuition on MLM garbage, they'd have blown it on something else. I'm sure there's a kid somewhere who blew his tuition making ridiculous option trades based on something he read on r/wallstreetbets.

Simple, if you receive income that is a royalty from the sale of products you sold to the person who ultimately sold them, it's taxed at 100%.

So no more wholesalers? No more commission for sales reps selling through partners?

Re: The MLM Epidemic in 13 Maps

#63
post #2

This article doesn’t dig into the details, but these companies are really vicious. They aggressively recruit at my college and I’ve seen them to convince students to take what they would have spent on next semesters tuition and use it to buy “inventory” (i.e. more products than they’ll ever be able to resell) instead. These things ruin people’s lives

Why shouldn’t the principals of a company that willfully harms so many people’s lives receive a criminal punishment on par with what someone who murders a single person gets?

Re: The MLM Epidemic in 13 Maps

#64

What if all the businesses were MLM? What if MLM schemes were also designed to re-distribute rewards so all the wealth wouldn't concentrate in the the top members' pockets?

And if my grandma had wheels, she'd be a bicycle.

Actually, a Co-op seems like the answer to your second question. Profits are shared among members in proportion to their activity.

Re: The MLM Epidemic in 13 Maps

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having been raised Mormon, it ain't surprising in the slightest that so many of these are concentrated in and around Utah/Idaho. There are a multitude of factors at play here: - Like you mentioned, door-to-door proselytism translates well to door-to-door sales. - Mormon communities tend to be very tight-knit and immediately trusting of fellow Mormons, so once you have a critical mass of LDS followers selling your "in…

Your first and second points are strong hypotheses. In my opinion the third in particular needs substantiation. It's quite common for external religiosity to be negatively correlated with higher education (a reasonable proxy for "rational individual thought," which is otherwise difficult to measure). Neutral evidence points towards the opposite for members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints - unique i…

> In my opinion the third in particular needs substantiation.

Fair enough. Exhibit A would be the AAUP's report on BYU's academic freedom¹ (BYU - Brigham Young University - being the LDS-owned-and-financed university system, aimed specifically at Mormon students and faculty). Money quote:

    Many faculty  members shared in some detail the narratives  of
    their  problems with  academic  freedom,  reappointment,  promo-
    tion,  and  tenure,  frequently  producing  documents  but  asking
    that  their  names  and  identifying  circumstances  not  be  included
    in this report. At least two cases are in litigation  against the uni-
    versity.  Some  cases  involve  issues  of  personal  conduct  that  are
    under  investigation  and  others  focus  on  academic  research  that
    raises concern with the administration.  Several creative artists in
    different  fields  told  of  pressures  to  alter  works  to  meet  unclear
    administrative  agendas. The  ability  of  faculty  members  to  leave
    BYU after  many years of service is impeded by a non-portable re-
    tirement  plan.  Numerous  women,  some  in  groups  and  some
    alone, spoke to the investigating committee about the hostile cli-
    mate for women on campus. Many expressed the view that single
    women and women who want professional  careers are under sus-
    picion  by the  administration  and  the  LDS  Church  because  the
    Mormon  Church considers marriage and  family the first  duty of
    a  woman.5  Overall,  faculty  members  described  an  intensified
    pressure in recent years for  a rigid orthodoxy and active  interfer-
    ence by Church  officials  in  university business to the  detriment
    of faculty morale.
And bear in mind this is a university (or more accurately three universities, though the report predates BYU Idaho transitioning from a junior college to a 4-year university, which is likely why only BYU and BYU Hawaii are mentioned). If even the Church's own university prioritizes Church doctrine over free thought and academic integrity, then the Church itself - and the various stakes and wards thereof - is unlikely to be much better.

On another note, per your second source, the "61% vs 50%" only pertains to individuals with "at least some college education"; the percentages drop to national averages when you look at actual graduates (18% of Mormons, v. 16% nationally) or those with post-graduate education (10% of Mormons, v. 11% nationally). Not that college education is really a reliable proxy for rational individual thought anyway (lots of smart and rational people didn't go to college; lots of less-smart and/or less-rational people did).

----

¹: https://www.aaup.org/NR/rdonlyres/27EB0A08-8D25-4415-9E55-80...

Re: The MLM Epidemic in 13 Maps

#66
post #7

When I worked retail sales in the 90s there was an Amway cult meeting nearby. Every few weeks, they would drop in after a pep-rally type thing and try to waste your time looking at the most expensive thing and talk about their amazing business. Then they'd drop the pitch (at the time it was about their e-commerce business). Once you ran into them, you could spot them. It was a mix of desperate mid-life crisis guys lo…

Cult is the right word for it. I went to a meeting once, met the leader, and it was fascinating. I caught every bit of the psychological warfare in play. Shortly after, I realized an important fact about MLMs, or at least Amway: They encourage members to work harder at their real jobs (their plan A) in order to finance what they call the member's plan B (independent business, early retirement, wealth, etc). This resu…

> producing mind numbing amounts of physical waste in the process.

It's hard not to see bitcoin like this, with the huge energy waste and the newly brought in funds from ad-hoc meme advertising on social media going to early investors.

Re: The MLM Epidemic in 13 Maps

#67
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cult is the right word for it. I went to a meeting once, met the leader, and it was fascinating. I caught every bit of the psychological warfare in play. Shortly after, I realized an important fact about MLMs, or at least Amway: They encourage members to work harder at their real jobs (their plan A) in order to finance what they call the member's plan B (independent business, early retirement, wealth, etc). This resu…

> producing mind numbing amounts of physical waste in the process. It's hard not to see bitcoin like this, with the huge energy waste and the newly brought in funds from ad-hoc meme advertising on social media going to early investors.

MLMs / Pyramid Schemes and bitcoin are fundamentally different constructs.

Re: The MLM Epidemic in 13 Maps

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you craft a law to make this illegal though? And then how do you enforce the law? How do you bring these companies to justice? A fool and his money are easily parted. If those students didn't blow their tuition on MLM garbage, they'd have blown it on something else. I'm sure there's a kid somewhere who blew his tuition making ridiculous option trades based on something he read on r/wallstreetbets.

Simple, if you receive income that is a royalty from the sale of products you sold to the person who ultimately sold them, it's taxed at 100%.

If that were the law, then the MLM's simple workaround would be to pay you a recruiting fee based on the success of the people you recruit. If the people you recruit sell a lot, you get a bigger fee because you did a better job at recruiting.

I imagine it'll be tough to craft a law to target MLMs because if it's too broad it'll hit many kinds of legitimate business and if too narrow they'll creatively bypass the rules.

Re: The MLM Epidemic in 13 Maps

#69
post #25
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wondered the same thing - why do so many MLN's seem to start in the Mormon Corridor[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_Corridor

I've wondered that too. One would think that religious people would have some aversion to harming others. Harm to the people you recruit is basically what direct sales amounts to. Another question is, are religious people more likely to fall for this scheme? It seems Western religion almost requires habitual suspension of critical thought of all claims.

> Harm to the people you recruit is basically what direct sales amounts to.

The trick is to make the seller believe one is helping the customer instead of hurting. dōTerra is an excellent example of this, encouraging its marks - sorry, "representatives" - to "spread awareness" of the "benefits" of its overpriced snake oils - sorry, "essential oils".

Like, don't get me wrong, I buy essential oils. I even work for a company that sells them. The difference is that I buy them because I spritz my wool dryer balls with them and they make my clothes smell good, not because I think it'll cure my migraines or fix the bald spot on my head. I also don't try to run a pyramid scheme with them.

Re: The MLM Epidemic in 13 Maps

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you craft a law to make this illegal though? And then how do you enforce the law? How do you bring these companies to justice? A fool and his money are easily parted. If those students didn't blow their tuition on MLM garbage, they'd have blown it on something else. I'm sure there's a kid somewhere who blew his tuition making ridiculous option trades based on something he read on r/wallstreetbets.

Simple, if you receive income that is a royalty from the sale of products you sold to the person who ultimately sold them, it's taxed at 100%.

The companies that make routers sell their products to us this way, through VARs.
Post reply on HN