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Mourning the End of Paper Maps

theguardian.com

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Re: Mourning the End of Paper Maps

#61

Post by potta_coffee »

marcosdumay wrote: post #43
chrisseaton wrote: post #8

There is no way that digital maps are anywhere near as practical, let alone more practical, yet. Digital maps: * rely on precious battery charge and weight * aren't very robust * are extremely hard to use in the dark or with night vision * can't be cut and folded into something small and light enough to hold in a hand * when portable aren't large enough for displaying on a table or wall for people to gather around

Paper maps: * weight a lot more than digital * aren't robust to water, dirty, or even manipulation * require extra equipment to read on the dark * can be cut and folded, but lose usefulness on the process (I really don't get your claim that cell phones can't be hold in a hand) But that last point is spot on. Ditto for the people talking about writing on the map (digital could improve on this front). Anyway navigating…

Laminate your map and use dry-erase map pens. I did it for years in the dirtiest, wettest environments possible. A typical cell phone wouldn't last hours, much less a day.

Re: Mourning the End of Paper Maps

#62

Post by 205guy »

umeshunni wrote: post #42

What a privileged, west-centric viewpoint. Much of the world did not have access to maps till the middle of the last decade when smartphones became the default way people navigated. I had never seen a map of my hometown in India (pop 1.3M) that was more detailed than the state or district-level till about 10 years ago, and now we have maps that show side-lanes and gullies and rickshaw pullers use their $50 smartphone…

I think it's a bit harsh to call an article by, for, and about British and Australian map-making "privileged" and "west-centric" in the sense that it's tautological. It would be another whole article, and a fascinating one, to track civilian mapping in India from the British occupation to Lonely Planet guides. I encourage you to follow up on this idea, either to research and write it yourself or find others who can (maybe even write to the article's author to raise your point and suggest it).

My experience in India as a student backpacking there 20 years ago was that tourist maps were inadequate, the LP guide was worth its price for the city maps alone, and locals on the street couldn't read either kind to help you. I don't know if it was illiteracy or just unfamiliarity, but outside of hotels and tourist centers, about half the people we asked on the street were baffled by a map and unable to orient themselves on it to help us. I'm sure they knew their way around, we just couldn't communicate with words (expected) or pointing at maps (unexpected).

There is a sibling comment that says in some cases there were also military reasons. I don't know about India, but I did run across this in Ecuador. To get a topographic map to climb a volcano, we had to find the Military mapping office and show our passports. Obviously, they wanted some control over the cartographic information. Now, world-wide topographic maps are available on google maps with terrain turned on. The data for which I believe was obtained by the Shuttle Radar Topography Mission in 2000:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuttle_Radar_Topography_Missi...

Re: Mourning the End of Paper Maps

#63

Post by xeromal »

cneurotic wrote: post #57

One advantage of paper maps, for me, is that they're much better at installing a 'model' for a city in your head. With digital maps, I can navigate from place to place to place pretty easily. But then I retain virtually no information. I end up with no 'nose' for how to find my own way home. But if I study a map on paper, laboriously plan my route in advance, and then follow it IRL — it's like magic. That route is in…

Yup, that's basically what I do on my motorcycle. I map out a route in my head and try to memorize it. Even if I miss a road, I have a pretty good mental model for alternative routes.

Re: Mourning the End of Paper Maps

#64

Post by hadlock »

chrisseaton wrote: post #8

There is no way that digital maps are anywhere near as practical, let alone more practical, yet. Digital maps: * rely on precious battery charge and weight * aren't very robust * are extremely hard to use in the dark or with night vision * can't be cut and folded into something small and light enough to hold in a hand * when portable aren't large enough for displaying on a table or wall for people to gather around

Boats have been carrying waterproof paper maps for decades, and for thousands of years before that carried vellum maps with waterproof ink. I have waterproof maps on my boat, the physical maps are required by the US Coast Guard.

You do not need extra equipment to read in the dark, you just need to not be standing next to a street lamp. Your eyes adjust quite well. If the moon is out you can read a map with sunglasses on. The moon is plenty bright enough to cast shadows and read by if there are no external light sources nearby.

If you use paper maps for any period of time, folding them becomes second nature, this is like saying that reading books takes too long compared to watching movies because you have to learn to read. On boats, navigational maps are rolled and there is dedicated space for unrolling them. Not all maps are used in the backcountry. Also maps come in bound formats called atlases which are quite convenient. Also Mapscos.

I feel like this post was written by someone who grew up in a post google maps world.

Re: Mourning the End of Paper Maps

#65

Post by [deleted] »

cneurotic wrote: post #57

One advantage of paper maps, for me, is that they're much better at installing a 'model' for a city in your head. With digital maps, I can navigate from place to place to place pretty easily. But then I retain virtually no information. I end up with no 'nose' for how to find my own way home. But if I study a map on paper, laboriously plan my route in advance, and then follow it IRL — it's like magic. That route is in…

[deleted]

Re: Mourning the End of Paper Maps

#66

Post by gorgoiler »

blackbrokkoli wrote: post #34

Paper maps will prevail as long as not-rich people are interested in (real) outdoor activities. Paper maps have a consistency and security no digital navigation device I ever owned or saw ever had. I realize this is a kind of "get off my lawn" argument one could also make about digital vs analog newspapers, or books. The key is: If my Kindle decides to do some weird updating and requires re-downloading all my books,…

Indeed: a battery-less 50” analog ink screen is not to be sniffed at when conveying information that changes at slowest on literally a glacial timescale, and at its fastest on the timescale it takes to decide where should we put this new road?

Re: Mourning the End of Paper Maps

#67

Post by chrisseaton »

hadlock wrote: post #64
chrisseaton wrote: post #8

There is no way that digital maps are anywhere near as practical, let alone more practical, yet. Digital maps: * rely on precious battery charge and weight * aren't very robust * are extremely hard to use in the dark or with night vision * can't be cut and folded into something small and light enough to hold in a hand * when portable aren't large enough for displaying on a table or wall for people to gather around

Boats have been carrying waterproof paper maps for decades, and for thousands of years before that carried vellum maps with waterproof ink. I have waterproof maps on my boat, the physical maps are required by the US Coast Guard. You do not need extra equipment to read in the dark, you just need to not be standing next to a street lamp. Your eyes adjust quite well. If the moon is out you can read a map with sunglasses…

> Boats have been carrying waterproof paper maps for decades

I didn't argue that they weren't waterproof. I laminate all my maps. I know they can be waterproof.

> You do not need extra equipment to read in the dark

Fundamentally, you're going to need a torch or image intensification on occasion. There can be not enough moonlight to read a map to any extent.

> If you use paper maps for any period of time, folding them becomes second nature

Yes that's what I argued was a benefit of them - that they can be folded easily.

> On boats, navigational maps are rolled and there is dedicated space for unrolling them

Yes that's what I argued was a benefit of them - that they can be displayed on a table.

> Not all maps are used in the backcountry.

Yes, I argued an advantage is being able to put them on the wall.

> I feel like this post was written by someone who grew up in a post google maps world.

I've spent hundreds of days operating by map alone all around the world. So, no.

I feel like you read my comment and somehow got the opposite understanding of every aspect. I was arguing that paper is better, and you've come in said no actually paper is better?

Re: Mourning the End of Paper Maps

#68

Post by fabi2607 »

coldtea wrote: post #58
chrisseaton wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do you need to shine light on a backlight? You can read it directly at night. You can't use a backlight at night - you'd light yourself up like a beacon, and destroy your night vision adaptation.

If it's about reading the map while navigating through the night in unknown territory in some emergency situation (lost in the woods?), I'd see where that would be a problem. Otherwise, I wouldn't go trekking/hiking at night either. Who does, so that that "map reading at night while maintaining night vision adaptation" to be a real non-outlier concern? If the use case is reading a map at a campsite, e.g. to prepare f…

> Who does, so that that "map reading at night while maintaining night vision adaptation" to be a real non-outlier concern?

Anyone doing alpine climbing will at some point start in the dark and/or return in the dark.

Re: Mourning the End of Paper Maps

#69

Post by davidw »

ticmasta wrote: post #37
davidw wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'll carry a paper map for mountain biking out where I may not have a cell phone signal, as a backup to any maps stored on the phone. That said, I remember saving up a bit of money as a kid to get 2 or 3 USGS topo maps. Now, I can get pretty good topo maps of the entire world for free from my browser. That's a beautiful thing.

Have you used trailforks.com from pinkbike? Their app combines a lot of data with the actual map, plus it's hard to beat how current they are due to crowd-sourcing. Definitely focused on biking but expanding into other users and works offline.

Yeah it's pretty good. I use it, but I also like to have a paper copy as backup if I'm out somewhere remote.

Re: Mourning the End of Paper Maps

#70

Post by wcarron »

techopoly wrote: post #54
blackbrokkoli wrote: post #34

Paper maps will prevail as long as not-rich people are interested in (real) outdoor activities. Paper maps have a consistency and security no digital navigation device I ever owned or saw ever had. I realize this is a kind of "get off my lawn" argument one could also make about digital vs analog newspapers, or books. The key is: If my Kindle decides to do some weird updating and requires re-downloading all my books,…

I couldn't agree more. I keep maps in my vehicle for this reason, and people give me a hard time for it. No matter what I say I can't seem to get people to understand why it's still important to have maps. Get out of cell phone service, which isn't uncommon in rural America...or lose the charge on your phone...and wind up on a winding country road...and see how well you can get yourself to civilization. Two is one an…

It's not even hard to lose cell service near urban areas. In the Angeles Nat'l Forest by LA you lose cell service real quick, not even 15 miles from major civilization.

I'm like you, too. I have an awesome Harley-Davidson map book that has complete maps of almost all highways in the entire USA, state by state. Also has maps of large metro areas in it, too.

Additionally, I always buy one of those NatGeo maps for wherever I'm going hiking/backpacking/camping (typically nat'l parks/monuments, but also Nat'l forests, state parks, etc.)

With these, I'm always prepared for no cell service.

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