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Mourning the End of Paper Maps

theguardian.com

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Re: Mourning the End of Paper Maps

#41

Post by newnewpdro »

nicwolff wrote: post #22
newnewpdro wrote: post #7

Paper charts are still alive and well in sailing

Well, they're alive. The USCG made paper charts optional for US-flagged vessels in 2017. Most cruisers use chartplotters at the helm, and chart apps on phones or tablets for route planning. At this point, I tend to use my iPhone at the helm as well. The charts are updated more often, and the location and tracking are very accurate (with an external Bluetooth GPS). https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2017/07/18/…

Obviously sailors are using modern navigational aids, they're a huge improvement when they're operational.

But I sure hope you still keep your sextant and charts dry and safe below deck somewhere if you spend any time at sea.

Re: Mourning the End of Paper Maps

#42

Post by umeshunni »

What a privileged, west-centric viewpoint.

Much of the world did not have access to maps till the middle of the last decade when smartphones became the default way people navigated.

I had never seen a map of my hometown in India (pop 1.3M) that was more detailed than the state or district-level till about 10 years ago, and now we have maps that show side-lanes and gullies and rickshaw pullers use their $50 smartphones with $3/mo data plans to find their way around.

Romanticizing the past is great as long as you come from a rich background.

Re: Mourning the End of Paper Maps

#43

Post by marcosdumay »

chrisseaton wrote: post #8

There is no way that digital maps are anywhere near as practical, let alone more practical, yet. Digital maps: * rely on precious battery charge and weight * aren't very robust * are extremely hard to use in the dark or with night vision * can't be cut and folded into something small and light enough to hold in a hand * when portable aren't large enough for displaying on a table or wall for people to gather around

Paper maps:

* weight a lot more than digital

* aren't robust to water, dirty, or even manipulation

* require extra equipment to read on the dark

* can be cut and folded, but lose usefulness on the process (I really don't get your claim that cell phones can't be hold in a hand)

But that last point is spot on. Ditto for the people talking about writing on the map (digital could improve on this front).

Anyway navigating a paper map requires some careful folding and unfolding that is quite slow, and you must carefully select what maps you'll bring every time, while for digital maps you just bring the entire continent.

I don't see how one can declare any of them a clear win. The answer depends too much on your use case.

Re: Mourning the End of Paper Maps

#44

Post by chrisseaton »

marcosdumay wrote: post #43
chrisseaton wrote: post #8

There is no way that digital maps are anywhere near as practical, let alone more practical, yet. Digital maps: * rely on precious battery charge and weight * aren't very robust * are extremely hard to use in the dark or with night vision * can't be cut and folded into something small and light enough to hold in a hand * when portable aren't large enough for displaying on a table or wall for people to gather around

Paper maps: * weight a lot more than digital * aren't robust to water, dirty, or even manipulation * require extra equipment to read on the dark * can be cut and folded, but lose usefulness on the process (I really don't get your claim that cell phones can't be hold in a hand) But that last point is spot on. Ditto for the people talking about writing on the map (digital could improve on this front). Anyway navigating…

> aren't robust to water, dirty, or even manipulation

You just laminate them.

Re: Mourning the End of Paper Maps

#45

Post by chrisseaton »

coldtea wrote: post #40
chrisseaton wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What displays do you use for in the dark? For paper you can shine a pin-point of green light and read it. That works for old-style LCD like a CASIO watch but I've not seen it work for a display designed to be backlit like a tablet. And you'd need a specially adapted display that used an IR backlight to use with night vision - I haven't seen something like that in practice. My smart watch has a night vision mode, but…

> What displays do you use for in the dark? For paper you can shine a pin-point of green light and read it. That works for old-style LCD like a CASIO watch but I've not seen it work for a display designed to be backlit like a tablet. Why do you need to shine light on a backlight? You can read it directly at night. > And you'd need a specially adapted display that used an IR backlight to use with night vision - I have…

> Why do you need to shine light on a backlight? You can read it directly at night.

You can't use a backlight at night - you'd light yourself up like a beacon, and destroy your night vision adaptation.

Re: Mourning the End of Paper Maps

#46

Post by chrisseaton »

jacquesm wrote: post #39
rtkwe wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd hate to try to pan and zoom on a map to try to navigate using an e-ink kindle with the refresh rate and flashing it's just barely usable as an ebook reader with page flips but anything interactive like scrolling on a page is pretty bad the few times I've tried.

Try panning and zooming on a piece of paper... that's the benchmark here. I've had the pleasure of toting along a couple of kilos of maps of all the roads in Europe for years, I would not part with my TomTom for the best set of maps and the most elegant of night lights.

> Try panning and zooming on a piece of paper

You can open a paper map up and look at a hundred km squares at once at a resolution no display can match.

Re: Mourning the End of Paper Maps

#47

Post by rtkwe »

jacquesm wrote: post #39
rtkwe wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd hate to try to pan and zoom on a map to try to navigate using an e-ink kindle with the refresh rate and flashing it's just barely usable as an ebook reader with page flips but anything interactive like scrolling on a page is pretty bad the few times I've tried.

Try panning and zooming on a piece of paper... that's the benchmark here. I've had the pleasure of toting along a couple of kilos of maps of all the roads in Europe for years, I would not part with my TomTom for the best set of maps and the most elegant of night lights.

Using a map for hiking and for road driving are pretty different scenarios. On a GPS for car driving I don't need to really look around much it already knows where I am and I can just search for where I'm going. Hiking there's not really anything to search for and things like battery life are a bigger problem.

Re: Mourning the End of Paper Maps

#48

Post by Aloha »

umeshunni wrote: post #42

What a privileged, west-centric viewpoint. Much of the world did not have access to maps till the middle of the last decade when smartphones became the default way people navigated. I had never seen a map of my hometown in India (pop 1.3M) that was more detailed than the state or district-level till about 10 years ago, and now we have maps that show side-lanes and gullies and rickshaw pullers use their $50 smartphone…

I guess they weren't needed then perhaps? Generally local maps here in the states, until the invention of the automobile were drawn up by whatever county or city the maps were for, yes, you could buy a copy, but they were not in common circulation unless you had a car.

Re: Mourning the End of Paper Maps

#49

Post by jacquesm »

chrisseaton wrote: post #46
jacquesm wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try panning and zooming on a piece of paper... that's the benchmark here. I've had the pleasure of toting along a couple of kilos of maps of all the roads in Europe for years, I would not part with my TomTom for the best set of maps and the most elegant of night lights.

> Try panning and zooming on a piece of paper You can open a paper map up and look at a hundred km squares at once at a resolution no display can match.

But you rarely need to see a hundred square km all at once. You almost always end up folding the map to some area of interest after you've located where that is (which can take some time, with the crappy lettering on most maps and the lack of a good index, which if it is there tends to get out of date fairly rapidly). I really don't miss maps. Though for backup purposes they are probably still quite useful.

Re: Mourning the End of Paper Maps

#50

Post by jandrese »

Aloha wrote: post #48
umeshunni wrote: post #42

What a privileged, west-centric viewpoint. Much of the world did not have access to maps till the middle of the last decade when smartphones became the default way people navigated. I had never seen a map of my hometown in India (pop 1.3M) that was more detailed than the state or district-level till about 10 years ago, and now we have maps that show side-lanes and gullies and rickshaw pullers use their $50 smartphone…

I guess they weren't needed then perhaps? Generally local maps here in the states, until the invention of the automobile were drawn up by whatever county or city the maps were for, yes, you could buy a copy, but they were not in common circulation unless you had a car.

Some places aren't mapped for political/military reasons. The idea being that a public map would be helpful to an invading force so they are prohibited by law.

In other places the maps are purposely incorrect to be of less use to an invading force.

Making life hell for locals is considered an acceptable side effect for national security.

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