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We're Surrounded by Billions of Internet-Connected Devices. Can We Trust Them?

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Re: We're Surrounded by Billions of Internet-Connected Devices. Can We Trust Them?

#31

Post by ysavir »

semiotagonal wrote: post #13

> But Kennedy's biggest concern at the moment is in the area of automotive safety No doubt. I was pricing out a Mercedes online, and looking through the summary one of the standard features was "over-the-air updates". That is the last thing in the world I want. An expensive car shouldn't be acting like an Android phone. It shouldn't be connected to the internet at all. If it's updating anything other than the enterta…

I fully agree. And I'm absolutely frightened of buying a car these days. For all I know, it has this sort of wifi-connection built in even if none of the marketing materials or promotional materials mention it. Would the rep I'm talking to even know if there is a connection in the car? Is there any legal requirement for them to notify me of connectivity they have with the car?

I'll use this as an excuse to buy a 70's Alfa next time I'm car shopping.

Re: We're Surrounded by Billions of Internet-Connected Devices. Can We Trust Them?

#33

Post by mikestew »

ZenModeRy wrote: post #23
dvdhnt wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate your consistency. We've been looking to buy an electric vehicle and thought Tesla was a no-brainer. Random reports of software issues have persuaded us to wait. Now, I'm learning there are more options from more mature brands that just don't receive as much attention as Tesla.

According to a Bloomberg survey of 5,000 model 3 owners, 98% say they would buy it again and the vehicle had surpassed their expectations. 99% percent of respondents said they would recommend the Model 3 to their family or friends. I live in Puerto Rico where a Tesla doesn't make much sense due to the infrastructure, but these numbers still made my neck hurt with a little bit with FOMO.

According to a Bloomberg survey of 5,000 model 3 owners, 98% say they would buy it again and the vehicle had surpassed their expectations.

I don't doubt those numbers at all, but here's the trick: I'll bet you could find similar numbers for just about any electric vehicle. And here's why: the odds are extremely good that if you own an electric vehicle, it's your first electric vehicle. The market just isn't that old. I bought one of the first Nissan Leafs, and it's only eight years old.

Okay, so if we can agree that most EV owners are on their first EV, then of course 98% of them are going to buy another one because regardless of make or model, EVs are just that good. Yeah, yeah, you drive from SF to LA every day, but we're not talking about you, we're talking about people that already decided to buy an EV. I'd venture that many are like me, and after a bit feel that ICEs are downright primitive. So their next car is going to be an EV, and why not buy the one I'm already happy with?

Re: We're Surrounded by Billions of Internet-Connected Devices. Can We Trust Them?

#34

Post by mikestew »

stopadvertising wrote: post #2

Every time I try to buy some device that is LAN only and doesn't talk to the net, ever, I usually find zero options or few crappy, expensive choices. Why anyone would install a camera that then talks to some corporation's cloud is beyond me, I have zero interest in that.

If you're looking specifically for cameras, go get some Foscams, and use something, anything but the software that comes with them. I use a Synology NAS that can talk to cameras, but there are tons of other options that can talk to generic cameras. The only time the cameras have any interaction with the internet is when the Synology decides to send the stream to my phone. As far as the cameras know, there is no internet.

And if you dig around and aren't all that choosy on features, you can often find Foscams on close out or otherwise dirt cheap. Some I have were $35, with panning; no optical zoom at that price, though.

Re: We're Surrounded by Billions of Internet-Connected Devices. Can We Trust Them?

#35

Post by marcosdumay »

ZenModeRy wrote: post #23
dvdhnt wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate your consistency. We've been looking to buy an electric vehicle and thought Tesla was a no-brainer. Random reports of software issues have persuaded us to wait. Now, I'm learning there are more options from more mature brands that just don't receive as much attention as Tesla.

According to a Bloomberg survey of 5,000 model 3 owners, 98% say they would buy it again and the vehicle had surpassed their expectations. 99% percent of respondents said they would recommend the Model 3 to their family or friends. I live in Puerto Rico where a Tesla doesn't make much sense due to the infrastructure, but these numbers still made my neck hurt with a little bit with FOMO.

The Model 3 has not existed for long enough for those statistics to make any sense. It's very easy for somebody to love a new car.

Re: We're Surrounded by Billions of Internet-Connected Devices. Can We Trust Them?

#36

Post by SilasX »

jodrellblank wrote: post #10
pjc50 wrote: post #7

I don't think they can be trusted to be either secure or reliable or even supported. Any of them could be remotely disabled at any time as the parent company goes out of business. On the other hand, at the moment they're mostly in frivolous devices. As they become ubiquitous this is going to demand EU-level intervention, just like the existing WEEE directive against lockout chips on printer cartridges. Americans will…

caveat the neighbour of the emptor, whatever that is in Latin. Your neighbour’s video doorbell will have the easiest time picking up on your face, but your neighbour’s cloud WiFi AP will surely see your WiFi devices coming and going in WiFi range through the day, and how long will it be before Siri is listening to your upstairs neighbor’s footsteps and telling you they’re unusually quiet for this time of the week and…

>caveat the neighbour of the emptor, whatever that is in Latin.

For anyone who's curious, I think that would be "Caveat vicinus emptoris". I only mention it because that should be its own thing, to "beware of spillover from stupid consumers".

Re: We're Surrounded by Billions of Internet-Connected Devices. Can We Trust Them?

#37

Post by rootusrootus »

dvdhnt wrote: post #21
semiotagonal wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true, I'm not looking to buy a Tesla. I'd include touchscreens as another problem but that's separate from the article's subject.

I appreciate your consistency. We've been looking to buy an electric vehicle and thought Tesla was a no-brainer. Random reports of software issues have persuaded us to wait. Now, I'm learning there are more options from more mature brands that just don't receive as much attention as Tesla.

> Random reports of software issues have persuaded us to wait

Case in point, the current release that has been rolling out over the last week or so definitely has some ominous bug reports.

But on the other hand, updates aren't forced, you can cancel them when they're offered.

It's a double edge sword, really. I've had several cars that desperately needed an update but it was impossible to get. I think I lean in the direction of having OTA updates available, as long as I maintain 100% control of them. And I need to be able to control data from my car going into the cloud. I think Tesla has both of these covered, though it could be implemented more elegantly.

Re: We're Surrounded by Billions of Internet-Connected Devices. Can We Trust Them?

#38

Post by m-p-3 »

semiotagonal wrote: post #13

> But Kennedy's biggest concern at the moment is in the area of automotive safety No doubt. I was pricing out a Mercedes online, and looking through the summary one of the standard features was "over-the-air updates". That is the last thing in the world I want. An expensive car shouldn't be acting like an Android phone. It shouldn't be connected to the internet at all. If it's updating anything other than the enterta…

As long as I can physically turn that off, and enable it myself if I want to check for an update I'm kinda fine with that.

Re: We're Surrounded by Billions of Internet-Connected Devices. Can We Trust Them?

#39

Post by rootusrootus »

cevn wrote: post #26
dvdhnt wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate your consistency. We've been looking to buy an electric vehicle and thought Tesla was a no-brainer. Random reports of software issues have persuaded us to wait. Now, I'm learning there are more options from more mature brands that just don't receive as much attention as Tesla.

It's true that there are bugs in software updates. However my car has gotten 5% faster twice from 2 separate software updates. Never had this experience in another car and it's truly fantastic.

Let's be fair. The most recent release has also caused a few people to have near misses as their car goes in a direction opposite to what they intended. Frequent software updates comes with risks.
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