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Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

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Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#21

Post by brnt »

throwaway_shame wrote: post #8

I am currently a master's student and about to start PhD in one of the top AI labs. I already feel mentally exhausted with all the indirect pressure tactics my supervisor uses like not responding to emails, withholding stipend for several months and so on. It's a disaster and I never imagined myself in this situation. I hope things change soon.

It helps if you can let go of the top places. I've done a PhD at a subtop institute, less well known, and I made a rule of not working in the weekend/evening (unless it was my own initiative, which was rarely), and I had a blast. I'm doing a postdoc now at another subtop place, which will be the end of my academic career because getting tenure of course still requires more than average, which I'm happy to admit I am.

Joing a top institute is starting training with olympians: most of us can't keep up, but that's fine. Join a local fitness club instead, and suddenly you can. You won't win medals, but you'll still learn a shit-ton, do good research and have fun.

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#22

Post by montalbano »

musicale wrote: post #10
throwaway_shame wrote: post #8

I am currently a master's student and about to start PhD in one of the top AI labs. I already feel mentally exhausted with all the indirect pressure tactics my supervisor uses like not responding to emails, withholding stipend for several months and so on. It's a disaster and I never imagined myself in this situation. I hope things change soon.

This isn't going to change. You should do everything in your power to get a better supervisor, particularly for your dissertation research. You're early enough in the process that starting a new project, or modifying your current project, is completely worth it to get a better supervisor who actually supports you and will help you graduate. Talk to other grad students to see what they think of their advisors. Also yo…

I just finished my PhD.

My first half was with a supervisor similar to what OP described. Fortunately I was able to transfer halfway through to a much better supervisor. I have seen both sides, having a good supervisor makes a massive difference.

Even so, now that I am finished, the emotional drain of the first two years and lack of time to properly recover has left me completely BURNT OUT.

OP, please take the advice of musicale, it is EXACTLY RIGHT.

I am a little dissapointed to find many comments here putting the responsibility on the (prospective) PhD student. I'm sure this is the case sometimes. In my case I was absolutely happy doing independent research at all times in my life apart from with this horrendous supervisor who, at all turns, made it difficult to do good science.

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#23

Post by mikorym »

I started to work instead of doing a PhD and I think it was a good decision. The sad part is having less time and progressing more slowly with research (outside of one's job, whatever it may be) but maybe it's better than not having a job and also progressing slowly doing a PhD full time.

As an aside, if you have a clear research interest already (which many PhD naturally take a long time to find) then I don't think it matters that much anymore whether you have the actual qualification. In Mathematics it could be easier to go the direct path to research than in Biology, though. Two papers can these days even be converted to a PhD with minimal additional work.

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#24

Post by kaybe »

throwaway_shame wrote: post #8

I am currently a master's student and about to start PhD in one of the top AI labs. I already feel mentally exhausted with all the indirect pressure tactics my supervisor uses like not responding to emails, withholding stipend for several months and so on. It's a disaster and I never imagined myself in this situation. I hope things change soon.

The others are right, it is probably not going to change.

From that short sentence it seems that your supervisor is doing a lot of things at once and you are low in the priority list. I don't think it's personal (unless you have clear evidence for the contrary).

If you're not ok with that (some people prefer being able to work in peace) and you cannot change it (some profs are like cats, show them something interesting and you'll have more of their attention than you ever wanted) see if there is someone else around to help. Are there any postdocs or other seniors who could fill that hole? Also talk to the other PhD students and see what their impression of the supervisor is.

It is very important that the supervisor/group and you are at least a decent fit. Think about what kind of working conditions and supervision you need, (and what would be harmful), and then consider if the match is good enough. (For example, do you want to be left alone or do you need closer mentoring? What kind of mentoring? Do you want to work with peers?) If in doubt about something major, you could also try to talk to the supervisor directly.

The most important thing for your mental health is mostly not the research question but your research conditions. Please take care of yourself.

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#25

Post by yummypaint »

throwaway_shame wrote: post #8

I am currently a master's student and about to start PhD in one of the top AI labs. I already feel mentally exhausted with all the indirect pressure tactics my supervisor uses like not responding to emails, withholding stipend for several months and so on. It's a disaster and I never imagined myself in this situation. I hope things change soon.

You should really consider a different advisor. In my experience that is by far the #1 most important factor in how your experience will be. You will be putting yourself in their hands much more than you already have. It's entirely possible to have an enjoyable experience with someone who supports a healthy work life balance. Of course when crunch time hits there will be very long crazy days, but when that isnt happening a good advisor will give you space, let you work when and where you want, and not engage in toxic behavior.

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#26

Post by helpPeople »

mikorym wrote: post #23

I started to work instead of doing a PhD and I think it was a good decision. The sad part is having less time and progressing more slowly with research (outside of one's job, whatever it may be) but maybe it's better than not having a job and also progressing slowly doing a PhD full time. As an aside, if you have a clear research interest already (which many PhD naturally take a long time to find) then I don't think…

I study on my own and present it on my website, no paywall or subscription. I do what I want, rather than what a professor tells me.

I've been featured on some top websites.

My point is, you don't need academia necessarily. And after meeting PhD grads, I'm not sure I believe in the positive association with intelligence and accomplishments.

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#27

Post by helpPeople »

Traubenfuchs wrote: post #16

The disastrous impact of PhD's on their authors health is already well known. The sad reality of the scientific publication, funding and politics game rat race is well known. Whether a PhD is a good idea, financially or economically, is debated. Why do people who are not 100% sure they want to do a PhD and know what it means continue to start one? (And how do we stop them? -That's the real question.)

It's an indicator of intelligence.

Although I'm glad to have learned at work, that a PhD is not the only way to showcase this.

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#28

Post by _emacsomancer_ »

ksey3 wrote: post #4

Sometimes I think PhD's should be awarded to Groups or atleast Pairs of researchers. Let the group find each other and defend a thesis. If the group breaks apart they loose their certification of expertise. And can reform and reprove it. Those who want to do things alone can, ofcourse do things the old way. This would reduce the the unrealistic expectations on some folk who work better in groups, while allowing them…

It happens occasionally: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Stokhof

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#29

Post by dr_dshiv »

mikorym wrote: post #23

I started to work instead of doing a PhD and I think it was a good decision. The sad part is having less time and progressing more slowly with research (outside of one's job, whatever it may be) but maybe it's better than not having a job and also progressing slowly doing a PhD full time. As an aside, if you have a clear research interest already (which many PhD naturally take a long time to find) then I don't think…

Really true. We need more examples of people completing PhDs in 1-2 years because they've already done the research and written most of the thesis. It's totally possible.

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#30

Post by bonniemuffin »

mikorym wrote: post #23

I started to work instead of doing a PhD and I think it was a good decision. The sad part is having less time and progressing more slowly with research (outside of one's job, whatever it may be) but maybe it's better than not having a job and also progressing slowly doing a PhD full time. As an aside, if you have a clear research interest already (which many PhD naturally take a long time to find) then I don't think…

I'm glad you called out biology as a counterexample. In my grad school/postdoc experience, publishing a meaningful paper in the wet lab biosciences often requires tens of thousands of dollars in consumable materials, as well as $100k+ of lab hardware. Casual garage researchers have very little opportunity to contribute to the field in meaningful ways.
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