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Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

nature.com

11–20 of 67 posts

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#11

Tbh I'm tired of the Nature articles about this. When is something going to change?

When the incentives change. Which means probably not in the next few decades.

Or perhaps if there is enough bad publicity and/or lawsuits by parents/families of students who died from suicide, and/or if enough grad students unionize and take action.

Universities hate bad publicity. It's one of the few forms of leverage against them.

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#12

Tbh I'm tired of the Nature articles about this. When is something going to change?

It will not change as long as the laws of supply and demand continue to hold. Science funding has been continuously rising at an incredible pace for the last century, causing the field to grow by nearly two orders of magnitude. But we are always strapped for cash because we can always instantly grow to carrying capacity for the funding, and that’s because a single professor can have upwards of 25 students throughout their career, in some fields 100.

If we weren’t at carrying capacity, nobody would have to put up with bad advisors and low pay. But we will always be at carrying capacity. Funding could grow by 10x tomorrow and we would be right back in the same position in 20 years.

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#13

I am currently a master's student and about to start PhD in one of the top AI labs. I already feel mentally exhausted with all the indirect pressure tactics my supervisor uses like not responding to emails, withholding stipend for several months and so on. It's a disaster and I never imagined myself in this situation. I hope things change soon.

This isn't going to change. You should do everything in your power to get a better supervisor, particularly for your dissertation research. You're early enough in the process that starting a new project, or modifying your current project, is completely worth it to get a better supervisor who actually supports you and will help you graduate. Talk to other grad students to see what they think of their advisors. Also yo…

This sound advice. I cannot emphasize enough how important is the supervisor in the PhD experience, IMO, the most relevant factor. So if this is the treatment you get even before starting... I would also say, yes, look for another place.

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#14

I am currently a master's student and about to start PhD in one of the top AI labs. I already feel mentally exhausted with all the indirect pressure tactics my supervisor uses like not responding to emails, withholding stipend for several months and so on. It's a disaster and I never imagined myself in this situation. I hope things change soon.

The top AI labs don't widthold graduate student funding. Almost nobody does this, as funding is often required before taking students and reviewed on a semester basis (typically planning forms) , and the checks are obviously issued by the university.

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#15

I am currently a master's student and about to start PhD in one of the top AI labs. I already feel mentally exhausted with all the indirect pressure tactics my supervisor uses like not responding to emails, withholding stipend for several months and so on. It's a disaster and I never imagined myself in this situation. I hope things change soon.

>I hope things change soon.

They will not. I have seen what a bad supervisor does to his students and it is not good. If you insist on the madness of a PhD, at least find a supervisor willing to treat you as a human being.

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#16
The disastrous impact of PhD's on their authors health is already well known. The sad reality of the scientific publication, funding and politics game rat race is well known. Whether a PhD is a good idea, financially or economically, is debated.

Why do people who are not 100% sure they want to do a PhD and know what it means continue to start one? (And how do we stop them? -That's the real question.)

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#17
I was once inside the research bubble but fell out when I quit from burn out. I have no regrets and have had wonderful and colourful jobs in the three years since. But I still dabble in research and have friends doing PhDs and post-docs. Honestly, what I see is that every single person in research is unhappy in some way. The degree varies, but they all struggle at least a little more because of their jobs.

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#18

I am currently a master's student and about to start PhD in one of the top AI labs. I already feel mentally exhausted with all the indirect pressure tactics my supervisor uses like not responding to emails, withholding stipend for several months and so on. It's a disaster and I never imagined myself in this situation. I hope things change soon.

> indirect pressure tactics my supervisor uses like not responding to emails

Are you sure this is a deliberate strategy

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#19
post #2

Nature published "A PhD State of Mind" in 2018, with this blurb: Recent surveys have linked academia and PhD studies to a risk of experiencing mental health issues. Despite the lack of extensive data, the negative impact of the stresses of lab life should not be underestimated, and PhD students and research trainees should be supported. It was discussed here at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19322834 . Repeatin…

I have heard something similar about a grammar school in Germany. Every 2nd year a student killed himself and also drug abuse and other things like that are more commonplace there compared to other types of schools in the city.

It seems that many similar institutions cannot cope with the development of young people and then the pressure rises until some of them see no other choice but to end this or try to escape.

Also mental health problems seem to increase in young people.

Somehow I think they should get more attention from really skilled people with social skills and also the education system(s) need to change to allow them to grow up before putting too much pressure on them.

Re: Nature’s survey of 6k grad students reveals the turbulence of doctoral research

#20
post #17

I was once inside the research bubble but fell out when I quit from burn out. I have no regrets and have had wonderful and colourful jobs in the three years since. But I still dabble in research and have friends doing PhDs and post-docs. Honestly, what I see is that every single person in research is unhappy in some way . The degree varies, but they all struggle at least a little more because of their jobs.

> Honestly, what I see is that every single person in research is unhappy in some way

Would they be happier doing a different job? The grass is always greener...

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