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Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

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Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#51

Post by blattimwind »

dheera wrote: post #29
Nextgrid wrote: post #26

The USB-C spec is an insane mess. The fact that every port used to be different is actually a feature, as it helps you identify which device supports what based on the ports it had. If you see an HDMI port on a laptop you can be sure it's going to output some kind of video signal over that. If you see Thunderbolt then you're sure the machine supports Thunderbolt. USB-C just jams all these incompatible standards into…

Not only that, but the USB-C plug itself is the worst-designed plug I have seen in a decade. It's flimsy sheet metal on the plug side with a nice big cantilever, and flimsy sheet metal soldered to a PCB on the other. Perfect recipe for broken ports and cables. I break about a cable a week and break a device every now and then. Mostly doing very normal things like charging a phone in my pocket while hiking. USB-C seem…

> I miss the old DC barrel connectors -- they never broke, and they were usually designed such that housing of the electronics took the brunt of everything, not the PCB.

I've patched up so many of these over the years, that doesn't really seem that accurate. Though it is relatively true for properly designed stuff (connector bottoms out on the case and not on the jack) and things using the rather rare panel-mount jacks, which are indeed very solid if only lacking in ingress protection.

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#52

Post by throwaway-9320 »

dheera wrote: post #29
Nextgrid wrote: post #26

The USB-C spec is an insane mess. The fact that every port used to be different is actually a feature, as it helps you identify which device supports what based on the ports it had. If you see an HDMI port on a laptop you can be sure it's going to output some kind of video signal over that. If you see Thunderbolt then you're sure the machine supports Thunderbolt. USB-C just jams all these incompatible standards into…

Not only that, but the USB-C plug itself is the worst-designed plug I have seen in a decade. It's flimsy sheet metal on the plug side with a nice big cantilever, and flimsy sheet metal soldered to a PCB on the other. Perfect recipe for broken ports and cables. I break about a cable a week and break a device every now and then. Mostly doing very normal things like charging a phone in my pocket while hiking. USB-C seem…

There exist magnetic charging cables that can help with the breakage issue you're having. The connector and charging cable are connected by two magnets and some pins, instead of breaking the cable or the device itself, the cable will just disconnect.

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#53

Post by feketegy »

Nextgrid wrote: post #26

The USB-C spec is an insane mess. The fact that every port used to be different is actually a feature, as it helps you identify which device supports what based on the ports it had. If you see an HDMI port on a laptop you can be sure it's going to output some kind of video signal over that. If you see Thunderbolt then you're sure the machine supports Thunderbolt. USB-C just jams all these incompatible standards into…

You have to be a detective to track down which cable is compatible with which port on your computer. Of course most e-commerce platforms don't show features of the cable, it's usb-c and be done with it...

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#54

Post by dmos62 »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #36
nrclark wrote: post #32

USB-C is a train-wreck for those of us who work in electronics design. USB-C's chipset support isn't all that good, it seems like. With USB 3 type A, you pretty-much just run your USB lines to the ports on your CPU. Simple, straightforward. Manufacturers are happy to do it, because it's dirt cheap and requires nothing except the connectors and maybe some ESD protection. USB-C is a different beast entirely. Just to us…

I'm completely ok with it being complicated to design and cost 10 euros more if it delivers. And despite all its flaws, USBC does. It's small. It's reversible. I can charge all my devices on it: my samsung tablet, my oneplus phone, my logitech mouse, my jabra headphones, my switch and my XPS 13 laptop, which I can also dock to my screen/ethernet. It's amazing. So yes, I had to take the time to find the proper cable,…

There's also a middle-ground that would have made people happier across the spectrum. Standard power cable, for phone, laptop, etc. Standard data cable, for your ereader, camera. Standard video-audio cable.

I think it's a good principle to have that if the engineers suffer, that will run downhill on consumers too. I think every engineer can find examples of that.

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#55

Post by blattimwind »

pm7 wrote: post #34
Nextgrid wrote: post #26

The USB-C spec is an insane mess. The fact that every port used to be different is actually a feature, as it helps you identify which device supports what based on the ports it had. If you see an HDMI port on a laptop you can be sure it's going to output some kind of video signal over that. If you see Thunderbolt then you're sure the machine supports Thunderbolt. USB-C just jams all these incompatible standards into…

I think in future devices are supposed to support as many popular functions as possible. Due to trend of thin devices we need smaller ports and fewer of them. Multiple possible use of same ports helps. > As a user there is no easy way for me to tell the 12-inch Macbook's USB-C port is different than the Air/Pro unless you explicitly search for it in the tech specs Seems like manufacturer failure. > If you see an HDMI…

> Due to trend of thin devices we need smaller ports and fewer of them.

People keep repeating this lie for some weird reason. Similar to the "3.5 had to go because phones are too thin for it" lie. Why? Why do you keep lying? What possible incentive do all these people have? Is it self-deception? "Oh yeah I'm totally fine with losing X, Y and Z because I get thinness and weight reduction in exchange!" You get neither.

iPhone 5 124x59x7.6 mm, 112 g

Six years later

iPhone 11 150x75x8.3 mm, 194 g

Now yes, its true, the iPhone 5 was part of a group of lightweight and thin phones that are now extinct, because clearly things are getting smaller, thinner and more lightweight to boot.

For notebooks the same observations can be made. The 2008 MBA is only about 100 g heavier than the current model, the thinnest part is the same(!) and thickest part about 4 mm thicker (1.9 vs 1.5 cm). A slight but minuscule improvement. You could have a 1.3 kg notebook at the end of the 90s, btw.

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#56

Post by pas »

feketegy wrote: post #53
Nextgrid wrote: post #26

The USB-C spec is an insane mess. The fact that every port used to be different is actually a feature, as it helps you identify which device supports what based on the ports it had. If you see an HDMI port on a laptop you can be sure it's going to output some kind of video signal over that. If you see Thunderbolt then you're sure the machine supports Thunderbolt. USB-C just jams all these incompatible standards into…

You have to be a detective to track down which cable is compatible with which port on your computer. Of course most e-commerce platforms don't show features of the cable, it's usb-c and be done with it...

I have no idea why the standard isn't mandating clear markings (eg something like the bands on resistors, or whatever that works for color blind folks too).

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#57

Post by cerberusss »

dmos62 wrote: post #54
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm completely ok with it being complicated to design and cost 10 euros more if it delivers. And despite all its flaws, USBC does. It's small. It's reversible. I can charge all my devices on it: my samsung tablet, my oneplus phone, my logitech mouse, my jabra headphones, my switch and my XPS 13 laptop, which I can also dock to my screen/ethernet. It's amazing. So yes, I had to take the time to find the proper cable,…

There's also a middle-ground that would have made people happier across the spectrum. Standard power cable, for phone, laptop, etc. Standard data cable, for your ereader, camera. Standard video-audio cable. I think it's a good principle to have that if the engineers suffer, that will run downhill on consumers too. I think every engineer can find examples of that.

USB-C allows me to hook up my laptop with one cable. Your middle-ground standard wouldn't.

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#58

Post by wslh »

Nextgrid wrote: post #26

The USB-C spec is an insane mess. The fact that every port used to be different is actually a feature, as it helps you identify which device supports what based on the ports it had. If you see an HDMI port on a laptop you can be sure it's going to output some kind of video signal over that. If you see Thunderbolt then you're sure the machine supports Thunderbolt. USB-C just jams all these incompatible standards into…

Once this is sorted out we would have a wonderful world. Using a single Thunderbolt port I connect my notebook to a dock and immediately convert the small notebook into a desktop with three external monitors plus many other ports. I can also magically use the same USB-C hub I use in the notebook in my mobile phone to add a keyboard and mouse plus an HDMI monitor. I have never seen this in the past: my previous notebook needed a specific dock to work and had a two monitors limit (with three different display ports available) while the phone needed a specific accesory/cable to connect to an external monitor.

And we have not started talking about eGPUs yet ;-)

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#59

Post by sgt »

Although a hub is useful, it's worth dedicating one of your USB-C / thunderbolt ports to running your external screen, especially if you can't afford a good hub at the moment. I use a DP to USB-C cable on my MacBook Pro.

As the article points out, it's not worth bothering with HDMI as you'll easily end up with 30Hz at 4k. 30Hz is absolutely unbearable, and I think most developers buying a new screen now will invest in a good 4K monitor.

Note about my setup: I then run 3008x1692 (2560x1440 is also good) scaled resolution on my 4K monitor as the full 3840x2160 resolution will make everything extremely small. Everything is crisp and running at a beautiful 60Hz.

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#60

Post by dmos62 »

cerberusss wrote: post #57
dmos62 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also a middle-ground that would have made people happier across the spectrum. Standard power cable, for phone, laptop, etc. Standard data cable, for your ereader, camera. Standard video-audio cable. I think it's a good principle to have that if the engineers suffer, that will run downhill on consumers too. I think every engineer can find examples of that.

USB-C allows me to hook up my laptop with one cable. Your middle-ground standard wouldn't.

I probably misused the "across the spectrum" idiom. What I meant is that it would make developers much happier than USB-C and it would make consumers much happier than USB 3. My idea was that it's a more wholesome situation than content consumer and frustrated developer.
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