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Truckers sue California, say new gig economy law would kill 70k jobs

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Re: Truckers sue California, say new gig economy law would kill 70k jobs

#31

Post by dragonwriter »

crooked-v wrote: post #10

The loads hauled by these truckers aren't going to magically vanish because the employment laws have changed, which would strongly suggest there will be about the same number of jobs in the end, since the same amount of work still needs to be done. > Many would have to abandon $150,000 investments in clean trucks I read this as: truckers will no longer be expect to supply their own $150,000 trucks to get into the bus…

> The loads hauled by these truckers aren't going to magically vanish because the employment laws have changed,

Also, since the new gig economy law just enshrined in statute the rule already adopted and enforced by state courts, while adopting some new exceptions not germane to the immediate issue, the law substantively hasn't even changed.

Re: Truckers sue California, say new gig economy law would kill 70k jobs

#32

Post by katmannthree »

manigandham wrote: post #22
crooked-v wrote: post #10

The loads hauled by these truckers aren't going to magically vanish because the employment laws have changed, which would strongly suggest there will be about the same number of jobs in the end, since the same amount of work still needs to be done. > Many would have to abandon $150,000 investments in clean trucks I read this as: truckers will no longer be expect to supply their own $150,000 trucks to get into the bus…

There's a strange political narrative (in California and elsewhere) that people can't possibly make their own living without being ripped off. All it's doing is taking freedom and choice away by squashing freelancers, not creating any new opportunities.

I think the point is more to set the floor for work conditions (such as with minimum wage laws) so that the very desperate and those who have difficulty assessing long-term costs (such as with MLMs or Uber) don't set the minimum conditions for everyone.

Re: Truckers sue California, say new gig economy law would kill 70k jobs

#33

Post by EricE »

dangrossman wrote: post #6
graeme wrote: post #4

This element of the law is an odd standard: > performing work "outside the usual course of the hiring entity's business That bans subcontracting, no? It's a common, long established practice in a lot of industries.

It doesn't ban anything, it just says that certain types of people working in certain arrangements can't be deprived of employment benefits.

"standard employment benefits."

And what would those standards be?

Re: Truckers sue California, say new gig economy law would kill 70k jobs

#34

Post by wil421 »

bhupy wrote: post #2

Pretty comical that it ended up being California regulation that would put truckers out of work instead of Silicon Valley automation.

What Silicon Valley companies have put workers out of a job since let’s say 2000? Some of the old companies have like HP and Intel certainly made certain office work redundant and to an extent Oracle.

What does HN think?

Re: Truckers sue California, say new gig economy law would kill 70k jobs

#35

Post by ropman76 »

bsder wrote: post #28
pmcginn wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in finished vehicle logistics, and I've worked directly with a wide variety of truckers, including three years in California. You are very right that the amount of cargo that needs to be moved will not change because of this law, but you are, in my opinion, wrong about everything else. I don't want to stereotype truckers because it is a diverse group. But I will say that in my anecdotal experience, this is a job…

> In my opinion, the most likely outcome of this law is that some truckers retire and sell their rigs to big corporations, some decide to work for big corporations, and prices go up for everyone who ships goods or buys shipped goods. Unless you're in asset based trucking and looking to expand, the chances are that AB5 is going to hurt you, not help you. So why won't the logistics companies simply swing this to: "A lo…

They already do. Many logistics companies have a "brokerage" area where try and get trucking companies (or truckers) to bid on loads going from x to y. I used to support software that did this. Not a fan of the software, but the people where blast to work with. In the area I worked with, it could get pretty crazy (lots of yelling across the room and the yelling at people on the phone LOL). They occasionally had less than ethical truckers holding loads hostage for more money....

Re: Truckers sue California, say new gig economy law would kill 70k jobs

#36

Post by arcticbull »

Camillo wrote: post #26
crooked-v wrote: post #10

The loads hauled by these truckers aren't going to magically vanish because the employment laws have changed, which would strongly suggest there will be about the same number of jobs in the end, since the same amount of work still needs to be done. > Many would have to abandon $150,000 investments in clean trucks I read this as: truckers will no longer be expect to supply their own $150,000 trucks to get into the bus…

[flagged]

In 2019 America, "Socialism" explicitly does not mean the state or workers own the means of production. 2019 American "Socialism" is capitalism with guard rails, raising up the bottom class a bit at the cost of the top. Regardless how you feel about that, Sanders is no Marx, and the breathless ranting over on Fox is just that.

The government has no interest in the means of production lol, and frankly, neither do the workers. Union participation is at an all-time low.

Re: Truckers sue California, say new gig economy law would kill 70k jobs

#37

Post by friendlybus »

manigandham wrote: post #22
crooked-v wrote: post #10

The loads hauled by these truckers aren't going to magically vanish because the employment laws have changed, which would strongly suggest there will be about the same number of jobs in the end, since the same amount of work still needs to be done. > Many would have to abandon $150,000 investments in clean trucks I read this as: truckers will no longer be expect to supply their own $150,000 trucks to get into the bus…

There's a strange political narrative (in California and elsewhere) that people can't possibly make their own living without being ripped off. All it's doing is taking freedom and choice away by squashing freelancers, not creating any new opportunities.

I see the same narrative in normal joes outside the political sphere. Some people really rely on mitigating risk to the point where work or income is guaranteed.

Re: Truckers sue California, say new gig economy law would kill 70k jobs

#38

Post by manigandham »

arcticbull wrote: post #36
Camillo wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

In 2019 America, "Socialism" explicitly does not mean the state or workers own the means of production. 2019 American "Socialism" is capitalism with guard rails, raising up the bottom class a bit at the cost of the top. Regardless how you feel about that, Sanders is no Marx, and the breathless ranting over on Fox is just that. The government has no interest in the means of production lol, and frankly, neither do the…

Capitalism with guard rails is just capitalism. It's never socialism or communism. No country has a completely unfettered free market, it's always on a spectrum with many socialist policies and regulations for the greater good.

The question is which policies are used and how they're enforced, and America has always tended toward more individual choice over state mandated actions.

Re: Truckers sue California, say new gig economy law would kill 70k jobs

#39

Post by r00fus »

manigandham wrote: post #22
crooked-v wrote: post #10

The loads hauled by these truckers aren't going to magically vanish because the employment laws have changed, which would strongly suggest there will be about the same number of jobs in the end, since the same amount of work still needs to be done. > Many would have to abandon $150,000 investments in clean trucks I read this as: truckers will no longer be expect to supply their own $150,000 trucks to get into the bus…

There's a strange political narrative (in California and elsewhere) that people can't possibly make their own living without being ripped off. All it's doing is taking freedom and choice away by squashing freelancers, not creating any new opportunities.

There are no absolute freedoms, otherwise we'd be fine with pay-for-hits markets like what was revealed in the silkroad investigation or child labor. Everything is nuanced and regulated to some degree.

The question is where you draw the line, and there's real difference of opinion on this front.

The fact we have different states experimenting with these laws is what makes the US form of Federalism great.

Expect more legislation and regulation of the new markets created by AirBnB, Bitcoin and Uber.

Re: Truckers sue California, say new gig economy law would kill 70k jobs

#40

Post by a3n »

pmcginn wrote: post #19
crooked-v wrote: post #10

The loads hauled by these truckers aren't going to magically vanish because the employment laws have changed, which would strongly suggest there will be about the same number of jobs in the end, since the same amount of work still needs to be done. > Many would have to abandon $150,000 investments in clean trucks I read this as: truckers will no longer be expect to supply their own $150,000 trucks to get into the bus…

I'm in finished vehicle logistics, and I've worked directly with a wide variety of truckers, including three years in California. You are very right that the amount of cargo that needs to be moved will not change because of this law, but you are, in my opinion, wrong about everything else. I don't want to stereotype truckers because it is a diverse group. But I will say that in my anecdotal experience, this is a job…

Well said.

I would add, "setting their on schedule" likely refers to independents choosing which loads to take and where.

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