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One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

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Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#541

Post by javagram »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #345
javagram wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t really understand the relation of your comment to mine. I’ve worked at a (US) company with a prayer room that was used by some Muslim employees. As a Christian myself, I don’t think it would have been considered a problem if I used it when it was vacant to say a prayer, although my religious tradition doesn’t have the 5x/day prayer requirement like Islam does so I never did.

I don't think only Muslims could use the rooms in any stories I have read about this topic. That wasn't my point. Consider going to a Muslim majority country where the religion controls the laws (like Indonesia) and /demand/ your Christian religious needs be accommodated. From my studying, you would either be summarily dismissed or even possibly punished.

> I don't think only Muslims could use the rooms in any stories I have read about this topic. That wasn't my point

“ Amazon (for example) provided only space for Muslims to have prayer rooms, but no one else.”

I understood this to be a statement that Muslims, but no one else, where provided space for prayer rooms. It appears you meant something very different, so my criticism doesn’t apply.

You are correct that there are some very intolerant Muslim-majority countries out there in the world. It’s here in the United States that anyone, no matter their religion, can find freedom and accommodation. Land of the free and home of the brave, and all that.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#542

Post by javagram »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #537
_qwfv wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's the way it should be? You are arguing that we should adopt that model? If not, this is just whataboutism. Just because other countries do something badly doesn't mean we shouldn't try to do better.

No, I am arguing the opposite. That they are /importing/ that tyranny, and most people seem to be unaware of it. Imagine if Buddists at Amazon had protested and demanded their own space for shrines? Or any other religion that has observational requirements? The US is being blind to oppression of religious freedom under a false ideal of what that freedom really is.

Didn’t you say that you accept that non-Muslims can use the prayer room though? So a Buddhist would be perfectly welcome to go into the room and use it. I’m a little confused what your point is.

How is a room available to everyone tyranny?

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#543

Post by Pfhreak »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #537
_qwfv wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's the way it should be? You are arguing that we should adopt that model? If not, this is just whataboutism. Just because other countries do something badly doesn't mean we shouldn't try to do better.

No, I am arguing the opposite. That they are /importing/ that tyranny, and most people seem to be unaware of it. Imagine if Buddists at Amazon had protested and demanded their own space for shrines? Or any other religion that has observational requirements? The US is being blind to oppression of religious freedom under a false ideal of what that freedom really is.

> Imagine if Buddists at Amazon had protested and demanded their own space for shrines?

Like... a prayer room? I'm imagining it now and... seems fine? It's hard to read your complaints as anything other than xenophobic, but maybe I'm misunderstanding the point you are trying to make?

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#544

Post by notzuck »

dang wrote: post #510
notzuck wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spotted the irritating person to work with.

We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking the site guidelines and ignoring our request to stop. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I've never received a warning?

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#545

Post by behringer »

Leherenn wrote: post #509
behringer wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a coworker I was training start crying because she got offered a better job and was going to lose all her new friends. I had to explain to her that her coworkers aren't her friends, her friends are whoever she wants. This culture of being friends with your coworkers is odd to me. My coworkers suck as friends, the vast majority of the time. And heaven forbid you don't want to be friends anymore, because now you'…

It's not that odd, you spend the majority of your time at work. It's even more the case I assume to people at Google or other big multinational s. People there are much more likely not to be locals, and a lot of their colleagues are going to be in the same situation. That's the perfect context for friendships. From personal experience, clubs can be difficult if it is a tightly knit community and you're an outsider; e…

My club was so friendly I felt unworthy to be included so quickly. I felt like a pretender for the longest time. So I'm not familiar with this idea lol.

That said, I'm friendly at work, I've made many friends at work. Some jobs have been a lot friendlier than others. But the idea that you need a job to make friends or you'll lose your friends when you lose a job is alien to me. If they don't want to spend time with you outside of work, they're not your friend.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#546

Post by [deleted] »

JohnBooty wrote: post #514
mrrrgn wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm trying to figure out what you mean by "white supremacy" because you use it so often it seems like something nebulous. -- So it seems that "white supremacy" is a catchall term for anything that argues a biological basis for group differences. Thank you for the links and for not just being aghast that I didn't know this. :]

So it seems that "white supremacy" is a catchall term for anything that argues a biological basis for group differences. (I think you're being disingenuous but I'll play along!) No, not quite. It's just that their history is inextricably linked. We can all agree that there is certainly much valid research to be done here. For example, why is sickle-cell anemia so much more prevalent in African-Americans? What biologi…

[deleted]

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#547

Post by gwbas1c »

RangerScience wrote: post #531
gwbas1c wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you differentiate between biased and legitimate disagreement? Neutral 3rd party? But then how do you know the party is neutral?

And, how does the neutral 3rd party determine the difference?

I think you'll find that right and wrong are often murky or politically motivated.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#548

Post by RobertRoberts »

Pfhreak wrote: post #543
RobertRoberts wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I am arguing the opposite. That they are /importing/ that tyranny, and most people seem to be unaware of it. Imagine if Buddists at Amazon had protested and demanded their own space for shrines? Or any other religion that has observational requirements? The US is being blind to oppression of religious freedom under a false ideal of what that freedom really is.

> Imagine if Buddists at Amazon had protested and demanded their own space for shrines? Like... a prayer room? I'm imagining it now and... seems fine? It's hard to read your complaints as anything other than xenophobic, but maybe I'm misunderstanding the point you are trying to make?

I want the pendulum to stop swinging. This means everyone needs to stay in the middle.

No religion at school and no religion at work, it's a balance that makes sure one doesn't oppress the others.

When a group of people are given a pass because everyone is afraid of them, then we have the start of tyranny.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#549

Post by RobertRoberts »

javagram wrote: post #542
RobertRoberts wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I am arguing the opposite. That they are /importing/ that tyranny, and most people seem to be unaware of it. Imagine if Buddists at Amazon had protested and demanded their own space for shrines? Or any other religion that has observational requirements? The US is being blind to oppression of religious freedom under a false ideal of what that freedom really is.

Didn’t you say that you accept that non-Muslims can use the prayer room though? So a Buddhist would be perfectly welcome to go into the room and use it. I’m a little confused what your point is. How is a room available to everyone tyranny?

We are giving up freedom of religion to appease one single religion. It's the start of really bad problems down the road. The demands and acquiescence is the issue, not the room.

You can't demand anything in the US right now from an employer on the basis of religion unless you are of one religion. All the others are ignored, or wouldn't even dare to make demands.

And this is done under the threat of violence from that religion.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#550

Post by RobertRoberts »

javagram wrote: post #541
RobertRoberts wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think only Muslims could use the rooms in any stories I have read about this topic. That wasn't my point. Consider going to a Muslim majority country where the religion controls the laws (like Indonesia) and /demand/ your Christian religious needs be accommodated. From my studying, you would either be summarily dismissed or even possibly punished.

> I don't think only Muslims could use the rooms in any stories I have read about this topic. That wasn't my point “ Amazon (for example) provided only space for Muslims to have prayer rooms, but no one else.” I understood this to be a statement that Muslims, but no one else, where provided space for prayer rooms. It appears you meant something very different, so my criticism doesn’t apply. You are correct that there…

There is currently a mass misunderstanding of religious freedom in the US. We have the freedom to say "no" to any belief we don't agree with, and that includes religious demands of employees.

The only reason Muslims get what they want is under the threat of violence. And US employers are scared of this, so they give in.

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