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Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

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Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#421

Post by roomey »

h3half wrote: post #394
roomey wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get you are joking, but there are two points that I would like to raise: There are many, many SV companies with large offices in parts of the world with very strong workers rights. I work in one of these. There is no problem, other then I'm not expected to work weekends and be on-call at unreasonable hours. If this is required I would need to be compensated for it. Secondly; perhaps I am reading into this, but I ge…

>Having protection from "right to work" means you can voice an opposing opinion without fear. I assume you mean "at-will employment"? Right-to-work laws, in the US, are laws saying that employees cannot be forced to join a union as a prerequisite to employment. At-will employment laws, again in the US, are laws saying that employees can be terminated for any or no reason, except for a list of specific reasons like ra…

Yes, I meant "at will", sorry ;)

I was told about a support call with a US university a few years ago and the director fired the sys admin in the middle of the conference call. It was in the EMEA time zone (like 4am central). Everyone heard about it because that sort of thing just wouldn't be done here.

The guy had done nothing wrong, he had been up all night trying to fix the problem, and the director came on the call and lost it.

I always think in that environment so much of your energy must be spent on ass coverage and politics over working.

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#422

Post by trianglem »

tnolet wrote: post #52

I'm curious about how the massive left/anti-fa movement in Berlin will react to this one. They kept out Google after massive protests. Not sure this is the same thing though. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/oct/24/google-ab... p.s. I'm based in Berlin. Have no horse in the race except that the Google office would have been right down the street of where I work.

I think tesla is going to be fine because it promises massive environmental improvements.

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#423

Post by trianglem »

tnolet wrote: post #52

I'm curious about how the massive left/anti-fa movement in Berlin will react to this one. They kept out Google after massive protests. Not sure this is the same thing though. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/oct/24/google-ab... p.s. I'm based in Berlin. Have no horse in the race except that the Google office would have been right down the street of where I work.

Isn't anti fascist just normal?

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#424

Post by jariel »

Gravityloss wrote: post #269
jariel wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without knowing the backroom deals - Berlin is a nice choice for things because it's like 'East Europe wages' with 'West Europe capabilities'. Germany is a very stable robust economy that might be their #1 'export source' - there's a lot of related knowledge - and in a 'cramped Europe' - the Berlin area is wide open. FYI Berlin has 'wide avenue streets' which are totally unlike most other European places, sometimes i…

I have heard that a working legal system is one way for a country to attract long term investment. There is less risk that some politician's friend ends up claiming your factory grounds. There are ways yo try to "hack it" like subsidies or having personal relations with someone high up but I don't know how cost effective and long term they really are. So if people want long term improvement, they should vote for a st…

It's the 'legal system' - and everything else.

German/French car companies, with long and historic ties on many levels to say, Poland, can fathom the risk of going there, especially with a long term view.

Volskwagen can plan decades ahead in some facets.

It takes 'a whole team' i.e. government (local, Fed, EU), probably financing/banking on both sides, political buy-in etc..

But for a new US company to go to Czech ... is asking for trouble.

The difference between E/W Europe is definitely centred around competitive advantage and long-established industries - but I'd argue more than anything it's 'good governance' at every level, private and public. And it's the same all over the 'developing' world.

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#425

Post by oska »

ptaipale wrote: post #308

Headline should be corrected: the site is near Berlin, but not in Berlin. Reported site is Grünheide, some 40 km drive from Brandenburger Tor, and a bit shorter distance from the under-construction BER airport. https://www.berlin.de/en/news/5972608-5559700-elon-musk-tesl... What makes me curious is that this village is actually within a nature protection area, Naturschutzgebiet Löcknitztal. I could imagine that build…

Looking at that map I'd assume they're planning on building the factory in the cleared area at the top, just off the Lichtenower Weg, with good close access to Highway 1.

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#426

Post by ahartmetz »

bakuninsbart wrote: post #400
mstipetic wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I am a part of the Berlin startup scene, so I have personal experience there, completing a fundraising attempt myself. I'm not saying there is no tech happening in Berlin, I just don't think that Car2Go and Coup are good examples of startups. They are actually perfect example of the German mentality in investing in startups - fairly secure plays which they can understand. As far as early stage investments compan…

Urbansportspass is a great example of a german startup: They have steady growth, good revenue flows, a great app and content customers. I feel like in recent years the startup scene in Berlin has gone rather off rails, with obviously flawed projects getting funding. The truth of the startup scene is that >99% of projects are pretty bad, and never deserved to leave the brainstorming phase in the first place.

I also see a lot of hare-brained stuff in Berlin, fairly transparent money grabbing schemes with little hope to make a positive difference for anything and little innovation / originality.

Germany's most successful former startup is Zalando - they sell clothes online. Notably its success isn't selling the company to a stronger US rival who could have as well crushed it, but saved time and maybe money by buying instead.

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#427

Post by mellosouls »

agent008t wrote: post #397
agent008t wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair: 1. Brexit hasn't happened yet. I.e. UK has not been able to introduce policies that would make it a lot more competitive and friendly for business than the EU/Germany, make it friendlier for international talent, which is one of the opportunities created by Brexit. 2. We do not know what would have happened had Parliament and civil service been more positive and cooperative on Brexit. It could be a self-f…

Could the downvoters please explain the downvoting? Are you arguing that there is no scenario under which Brexit could make Britain a more attractive place for business than the EU or Germany?

I didn't downvote you (I posted the parent to your response) but your comment read to me as coming from a perspective skewed through Brexiteer-tinted glasses, which both Remainers and neutrals wanting objectivity might find frustrating.

I can believe there might be positive aspects for business, but pretty much all of them involve a deterioration in workers and other rights (human, animal) and standards. And generally speaking, while agility and flexibility are likely to follow from becoming newly small and skinny, I don't see how that helps when in the trading ring with very big, very strong heavyweights.

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#428

Post by kayoone »

sneak wrote: post #417
kayoone wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there are a lot of cool projects to be built in the area of Tegel, including more housing. My University wants/needs to expand its campus there too and people who bought apartments in the area would get screwed over if Tegel would stay. It needs to go.

How would people who bought apartments next to the airport get screwed over? Are you suggesting that a potentially-inaccurate prediction of the future was priced in? Millions of more people use Tegel than use those apartments, and if they aren’t “screwed over” living near the airport today, they wouldn’t be if it stayed open.

It wasn't a prediction, this was set in stone and only the disaster that is the BER construction made some people reevaluate it. Of course it was risky to buy a home based on this, but there are many other forward looking projects to be based in the Tegel area, many of which have been planned for over a decade and that have been invested in already.

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#429

Post by ptaipale »

kayoone wrote: post #412
ptaipale wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What consequences do you mean? I could imagine that the factory staff would often live closer to the site, in Brandenburg, not in Berlin which has housing problems and is accumulating more of them through rent regulation.

you can still live in Berlin and be close to the site and in that area of Berlin is is also less housing problems, if any.

Yes of course - but surely isn't putting pressure on the hippiest areas of Berlin where some people riot to oppose gentrification.

Re: Tesla’s European gigafactory will be built in Berlin

#430

Post by ptaipale »

oska wrote: post #425
ptaipale wrote: post #308

Headline should be corrected: the site is near Berlin, but not in Berlin. Reported site is Grünheide, some 40 km drive from Brandenburger Tor, and a bit shorter distance from the under-construction BER airport. https://www.berlin.de/en/news/5972608-5559700-elon-musk-tesl... What makes me curious is that this village is actually within a nature protection area, Naturschutzgebiet Löcknitztal. I could imagine that build…

Looking at that map I'd assume they're planning on building the factory in the cleared area at the top, just off the Lichtenower Weg, with good close access to Highway 1.

Yes, that makes sense.

It's a bit of a shame that there's no Google Street View in much of Germany.

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