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Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

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471–480 of 617 posts

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#471
They'll probably now resort to kindly asking to view the contents of your phone and laptop, and when you don't give it to them, they'll take that as the "reasonable suspicion" they need to force you.

The courts decided good, but in practice it wont matter at all.

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#472
post #408

They can image my mobile device in, what, 5 minutes? Why hold it for days or weeks except as a form of coercion? You land and need your phone to retrieve the phone number for friends or family, to order rides, create and manage accommodations, and find directions. Taking someone's mobile device leaves them stranded.

They can only image your device if they can connect to it. I don't know what Android is like in this regard, but an iPhone won't open up the USB interface to a foreign device until it has been unlocked and the device has been trusted by entering the passcode, which keeps some power in your hands. If they just take the device off you, your power is taken away in a different way, but it's still taken away from you.

I'm not an expert. From what I can tell on my phone, USB interface isn't available unless developer options are first enabled, and then USB debugging is enabled, and the phone is unlocked, and then once an initiate USB connection is made the user needs to acknowledge the host USB trying to make a connection which requires the phone is unlocked to see and acknowledge the request.

So, offhand I'm not sure to what additional degree a user is at risk if they have developer options and USB debugging enabled, if they're also unwilling to hand over their unlock code. Obviously if neither debugging nor developer options are enabled, they can be trivially enabled once the unlock code is entered.

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like everybody who's replying to you didn't read your last paragraph

No, I read that, but the author presented a viewpoint from the historic example of luggage, cargo, etc. searches and then simply stated the courts disagreed. Expanding on that to talk about why those things are in fact different and not comparable is a salient point, and not something that a reader of the GP comment would necessarily come away with otherwise.

Because the reasons are fairly obvious to everyone here. Smartphones are basically an extension of our brains. They are our eyes, ears, mouths, and memories. Searching a smartphone (and usually copying its contents) is an invasion of privacy far beyond flipping though a ship log or traveler's diary, so that precedent isn't good enough to establish reasonableness.

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#474
post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, in this very thread there are discussions, presumably by Americans, about whether human rights “afforded” to people only apply to citizens or all humans. They are literally arguing if “people” only means US citizens.

The Bill of Rights affords citizens protections from their government. They weren't written as inalienable human rights. So it has long been debated whether those protections are owed to non-citizens.

> We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

The USA was founded on the premise that human rights applied to all. When any governing entity no longer respects those rights, it's time to turf the bums out and start again.

The current government of the USA, at the urging of a self-selected elite among its supporting citizens, believes those inalienable human rights only apply to a select few. These are the conditions outlined in the Declaration of Independence as reason to overthrow the current regime.

There is well-documented historical precedence. Tread lightly.

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#475

Best thing is to just not have anything to do with the US of A. Death penalty, loaded guns everywhere, a general attitude of being the masters of the world which leads to things like suspicionless searches. No, thanks. I think the best would be if more people would actually stop dealing with the USA. Its becoming a trend. I once turned down an invitation to a conference in Hawai, and guess what, I was not alone.

Death penalty exists, but it is rare. Loaded guns exist, but they are not common. Most of them are in the hands of well trained people who are harmless unless (in the unlikely event) that deadly force is the only way they can get out of the situations. The US has its problems, but you have been listening to propaganda by anti US forces (you might want to figure out who they are and what their agenda is!) if you think…

I'm a US citizen. Most of his points are valid.

Guns fucking everywhere is a problem. Lots of Americans think so. Yes, we absolutely execute people -- and our criminal justice system is a completely sham, especially if you're not white and rich.

Oh, and God save you from our health care economics.

If I weren't American, I'd absolutely never come here. In fact, I am American, and I'm actively researching ways to establish residency elsewhere.

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#476

Best thing is to just not have anything to do with the US of A. Death penalty, loaded guns everywhere, a general attitude of being the masters of the world which leads to things like suspicionless searches. No, thanks. I think the best would be if more people would actually stop dealing with the USA. Its becoming a trend. I once turned down an invitation to a conference in Hawai, and guess what, I was not alone.

Death penalty exists, but it is rare. Loaded guns exist, but they are not common. Most of them are in the hands of well trained people who are harmless unless (in the unlikely event) that deadly force is the only way they can get out of the situations. The US has its problems, but you have been listening to propaganda by anti US forces (you might want to figure out who they are and what their agenda is!) if you think…

As an American I read that as, "we don't have to change, and anyone who suggests we might is in on some conspiracy." Head out of the sand, my friend.

You are right that the death penalty is rare. Rare as in very few developed countries allow it.

Regarding guns, please stop to ask why our friends and neighbors need to carry a killing device to feel themselves.

The US has its problems, but it has corrected many of them over time. (vide: slavery) This occurred when citizenry was not content to leave things where they are and dismiss criticism.

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#478

Best thing is to just not have anything to do with the US of A. Death penalty, loaded guns everywhere, a general attitude of being the masters of the world which leads to things like suspicionless searches. No, thanks. I think the best would be if more people would actually stop dealing with the USA. Its becoming a trend. I once turned down an invitation to a conference in Hawai, and guess what, I was not alone.

As an American, I'm lovin' it! Guns are everywhere, yet shootings are very rare. I feel very safe knowing I and others around me all want and enjoy safety, and we have strong law enforcement to keep it that way.

(Although I agree that our 4th amendment has been horrifically raped in modern times.)

The vast majority of gun deaths are consentual (suicide), and of the homicidal remainder, the vast majority are within organized crime. Stay away from gang activity and don't flagrantly disobey police officers, and I guarantee you'll be completely fine.

If you disagree with all this, it's probably just not the country for you. You make a good decision staying out.

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not entirely true - I think the official term is creative reconstruction -and basically once they have evidence then they go back and document all of the things that, with perfect hindsight, would have caused reasonable suspicion so that obtaining the evidence then becomes justified. So John Doe has been caught transporting narcotics, and with perfect hindsight we know that John drives a much more expensive ca…

You’re thinking of Parallel Construction https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction

That’s it! Thank you

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can buy a gun easily enough. However the people who actually do that tend to be enthusiasts who are well trained. To have a loaded gun on your person you need to be well trained in most states.

Again what do you base this on? I got a concealed carry permit after a 2 hour training class. During this class I had to fire a total of 6 rounds at a target ~15 feet away. I was not given any training on how to use the weapon, only a primer on the laws about when I can shoot someone. At no time did I have to demonstrate that I could safely bring my weapon from concealment to ready without shooting myself in the leg…

> At no time did I have to demonstrate that I could safely bring my weapon from concealment to ready without shooting myself in the leg or a bystander.

It's not hard. If you pull the trigger, a bullet comes out (if the safety is off and if there is one in the chamber). So, simply don't pull the trigger until you are ready to fire a bullet. Most (if not all) people that buy guns, you included, understand this basic concept.

It's not like guns require massive amounts of experience to achieve proficiency. It's a simple tool, not a piano.

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