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Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

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Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#431

Post by t0ddbonzalez »

cmurf wrote: post #410
t0ddbonzalez wrote: post #404

Solution: Go through border control with blank phone/laptop and restore from backup later.

Is this what the EFF, ACLU, etc. actually recommend these days? Or do they want regular Joe Citizen to be willing to subject themselves to duress by customs? If most people erase their devices, it's a kind of giving up. Accepting data loss (hopefully temporarily, but not everything is stored in the cloud, e.g. SMS messages, at least in Android phones with the original texting app) is punative. And disproportionate. A…

I don’t speak for the EFF or ACLU so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Speaking of disproportionate...I think it’s disproportionate to surrender my phone to DHS/ICE for unwarranted inspection in order to enter the country.

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#432

Post by seanccox »

uwydr wrote: post #425
WilTimSon wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That whole attitude of being "the greatest country in the world" always seemed so peculiar to me. I get that all countries tend to be patriotic and embellish themselves but that just sounds a bit ridiculous and antagonistic. For a country established by immigrants and populated by immigrants, you'd think the national identity would be a bit more versatile. Instead, it's been homogenized to the point where people have…

>by immigrants and populated by immigrants By white immigrants of a more-or-less shared Christian ancestry* You make it sound like the USA was founded by a rainbow-coloured melting pot. It definitely was not

When the Declaration of Independence was signed, Africans comprised a significant percentage of the US population (60% of SC, 40% of VA, and 20-25% of northern urban centers like Boston and Newport [1])(2). They were not white, likely not Christian, and instrumental to the establishment of the US.

1) https://teachinghistory.org/history-content/ask-a-historian/... 2) https://faculty.weber.edu/kmackay/statistics_on_slavery.htm

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#433

Post by incongruity »

euroPoor wrote: post #421
sbarre wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not about the US citizenry but about the state. If you can't actually see how the American state (not population or country) has devolved into something to be concerned about over the last 20 years, perhaps you're not looking hard enough. Domestic politics and policies are cruel and divisive, international policies have regressed dramatically (i.e. they've pulled out of major international treaties around arm…

The United States government is legitimized by its people. While I highly disagree with the ‘America terrible’ feeling your argument does not hold.

I’d instead say that it is legitimate as long as it continues to align with and perpetuate the interests and values of its people. To that end, if our government has strayed from that in significant ways, it delegitimizes itself and we, the people have an obligation to ourselves and others to rein it in.

America, the people, is still a source of pride for me but one can hold that view and still see significant flaws with how our government acts on our behalf - or despite it.

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#434

Post by bluGill »

mlang23 wrote: post #399

Best thing is to just not have anything to do with the US of A. Death penalty, loaded guns everywhere, a general attitude of being the masters of the world which leads to things like suspicionless searches. No, thanks. I think the best would be if more people would actually stop dealing with the USA. Its becoming a trend. I once turned down an invitation to a conference in Hawai, and guess what, I was not alone.

Death penalty exists, but it is rare.

Loaded guns exist, but they are not common. Most of them are in the hands of well trained people who are harmless unless (in the unlikely event) that deadly force is the only way they can get out of the situations.

The US has its problems, but you have been listening to propaganda by anti US forces (you might want to figure out who they are and what their agenda is!) if you think either of the above issues are worth a worry.

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#435

Post by throwaway6734 »

sbarre wrote: post #413
g105b wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is as mindless as the generalisation it's applying to an entire population.

This is not about the US citizenry but about the state. If you can't actually see how the American state (not population or country) has devolved into something to be concerned about over the last 20 years, perhaps you're not looking hard enough. Domestic politics and policies are cruel and divisive, international policies have regressed dramatically (i.e. they've pulled out of major international treaties around arm…

> If you can't actually see how the American state (not population or country) has devolved into something to be concerned about over the last 20 years

I find this timeframe strange. Although the US has had major policy mishaps in the last 20 years (Iraq war, NSA surveillance, etc), imo policy is still better than at any other time in America's history.

What timeframe do you think had "better" policy?

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#436

Post by uwydr »

seanccox wrote: post #432
uwydr wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>by immigrants and populated by immigrants By white immigrants of a more-or-less shared Christian ancestry* You make it sound like the USA was founded by a rainbow-coloured melting pot. It definitely was not

When the Declaration of Independence was signed, Africans comprised a significant percentage of the US population (60% of SC, 40% of VA, and 20-25% of northern urban centers like Boston and Newport [1])(2). They were not white, likely not Christian, and instrumental to the establishment of the US. 1) https://teachinghistory.org/history-content/ask-a-historian/... 2) https://faculty.weber.edu/kmackay/statistics_on_sla…

They were slaves. They weren't part of the processes that led to the founding of the republic. In other words, that's like saying pack mules founded the USA.

America was founded by Christian whites.

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#437

Post by eyegor »

Hopefully this stands (or gets challenged and reaffirmed in a higher court). This is a tiny step in the right direction when it comes to the border search exception, which has been upheld in the supreme court [1, 2]. Also commonly known as the 100-mile constitution free zone [3].

[1] Almeida Sanchez vs United States

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception

[3] https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#438

Post by odiroot »

psv1 wrote: post #417
mlang23 wrote: post #399

Best thing is to just not have anything to do with the US of A. Death penalty, loaded guns everywhere, a general attitude of being the masters of the world which leads to things like suspicionless searches. No, thanks. I think the best would be if more people would actually stop dealing with the USA. Its becoming a trend. I once turned down an invitation to a conference in Hawai, and guess what, I was not alone.

Yes - on a personal level, I tend to avoid travelling to the US. For the same reasons that I avoid travelling to most of the Middle East or China.

Middle East I can understand but what's your beef with China?

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#439

Post by homonculus1 »

iron0013 wrote: post #106
homonculus1 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That interpretation is farcical and was rightly overturned. How can a right be held by the collective if it is not protected for the individual? Are we to believe that individual journalists may be hauled off to jail without violating the freedom of "the press"? Collective rights are held by the States. "The people" are individuals and the prefatory militia clause is not a limit.

The founders included that clause for a reason.

The Supreme Court opinion in DC v. Heller explains why that clause was included:

>The Second Amendment is naturally divided into two parts: its prefatory clause and its operative clause. The former does not limit the latter grammatically, but rather announces a purpose. The Amendment could be rephrased, “Because a well regulated Militia is necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.”

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/554/570/#tab-opi...

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#440

Post by blanche_ »

uwydr wrote: post #436
seanccox wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the Declaration of Independence was signed, Africans comprised a significant percentage of the US population (60% of SC, 40% of VA, and 20-25% of northern urban centers like Boston and Newport [1])(2). They were not white, likely not Christian, and instrumental to the establishment of the US. 1) https://teachinghistory.org/history-content/ask-a-historian/... 2) https://faculty.weber.edu/kmackay/statistics_on_sla…

They were slaves. They weren't part of the processes that led to the founding of the republic. In other words, that's like saying pack mules founded the USA. America was founded by Christian whites.

You're comparing black people to mules? Seriously? They contributed their work not to mention what people from US did to native americans.
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