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Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

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Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#411

Post by neilalexander »

cmurf wrote: post #408

They can image my mobile device in, what, 5 minutes? Why hold it for days or weeks except as a form of coercion? You land and need your phone to retrieve the phone number for friends or family, to order rides, create and manage accommodations, and find directions. Taking someone's mobile device leaves them stranded.

They can only image your device if they can connect to it. I don't know what Android is like in this regard, but an iPhone won't open up the USB interface to a foreign device until it has been unlocked and the device has been trusted by entering the passcode, which keeps some power in your hands.

If they just take the device off you, your power is taken away in a different way, but it's still taken away from you.

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#412

Post by cmurf »

turc1656 wrote: post #40
CharlesColeman wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I suspect you may know this, but there exist many locations and circumstances wherein various rights are suspended. It sounds like this recent ruling may have rendered that page out of date. From your link: > According to the government, however, these basic constitutional principles do not apply fully at our borders. For example, at border crossings (also called "ports of entry"), federal authorities do not need a…

" It sounds like this recent ruling may have rendered that page out of date. " Not exactly. Here, the only change is related to digital devices being searched. Everything else that happens at the border regarding searches is unchanged. So the limitation of the 4th amendment is still largely unaltered. But the protections have now been extended to digital devices only at border searches. The article doesn't go into it…

Ok so why do they do it? They're many examples. This one isn't even especially good because this employee was protecting his employer's privacy rather than his own.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/03/apple-employee-files-complai...

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#413

Post by sbarre »

g105b wrote: post #403
mlang23 wrote: post #399

Best thing is to just not have anything to do with the US of A. Death penalty, loaded guns everywhere, a general attitude of being the masters of the world which leads to things like suspicionless searches. No, thanks. I think the best would be if more people would actually stop dealing with the USA. Its becoming a trend. I once turned down an invitation to a conference in Hawai, and guess what, I was not alone.

This comment is as mindless as the generalisation it's applying to an entire population.

This is not about the US citizenry but about the state.

If you can't actually see how the American state (not population or country) has devolved into something to be concerned about over the last 20 years, perhaps you're not looking hard enough.

Domestic politics and policies are cruel and divisive, international policies have regressed dramatically (i.e. they've pulled out of major international treaties around arms and climate and trade).

In the eyes of the average world citizen, America used to export an aspirational culture, now they export greed, cynicism, and technological dystopia (and I don't mean Facebook, I mean mass surveillance and drone warfare).

They are of course not alone in all this, but they are the biggest and most powerful country on the planet, so they lead by example, and it's becoming a shittier example every year.

So yeah, as an outsider looking into the US, I don't find that comment mindless at all.

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#414

Post by sandebert »

t0ddbonzalez wrote: post #404

Solution: Go through border control with blank phone/laptop and restore from backup later.

I was under the impression that going through with blank phone/laptop would in itself be considered suspicious. Is that not the case?

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#415

Post by [deleted] »

reactor4 wrote: post #397
angry_octet wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lock screen is a reason for 'reasonable suspicion'? I'm not saying you're wrong, but it seems unreasonable. If I have a lock on my briefcase it isn't reasonable to suggest it's full of contraband.

“lock screen with CP”

[deleted]

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#416

Post by zxcvbn4038 »

landryraccoon wrote: post #84
gorgoiler wrote: post #30

I’m not sure to whom the reasonable suspicion has to be announced? It makes it hard for me, a lay person, to understand the practical ramifications of this decision. Would the suspicion have to be announced to me, when I’m asked to unlock my phone, or would it have to be presented to a court, when they are asked to prosecute me based on the contents of my phone? If they find illegal content on my phone, wouldn’t the…

The point of the law is that even if law enforcement finds evidence of guilt via illegal search, they cannot use that evidence in court. This is a crucial protection for citizens. The point of the ruling isn't that it prevents the search, it prevents the result of that search from being used against you. If law enforcement wishes to establish the guilt of a suspect in court, it has to use only evidence it obtained th…

That’s not entirely true - I think the official term is creative reconstruction -and basically once they have evidence then they go back and document all of the things that, with perfect hindsight, would have caused reasonable suspicion so that obtaining the evidence then becomes justified. So John Doe has been caught transporting narcotics, and with perfect hindsight we know that John drives a much more expensive car then his his income allows, so that raised suspicion and justified searching the vehicle where the narcotics were found. That’s how it seems to work more or less.

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#417

Post by psv1 »

mlang23 wrote: post #399

Best thing is to just not have anything to do with the US of A. Death penalty, loaded guns everywhere, a general attitude of being the masters of the world which leads to things like suspicionless searches. No, thanks. I think the best would be if more people would actually stop dealing with the USA. Its becoming a trend. I once turned down an invitation to a conference in Hawai, and guess what, I was not alone.

Yes - on a personal level, I tend to avoid travelling to the US. For the same reasons that I avoid travelling to most of the Middle East or China.

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#418

Post by jason_slack »

mlang23 wrote: post #399

Best thing is to just not have anything to do with the US of A. Death penalty, loaded guns everywhere, a general attitude of being the masters of the world which leads to things like suspicionless searches. No, thanks. I think the best would be if more people would actually stop dealing with the USA. Its becoming a trend. I once turned down an invitation to a conference in Hawai, and guess what, I was not alone.

But you realize that ordinary people don't have a large choice in this right? We can vote and vote and vote, but until the majority wins, and helps facilitate change, we are stuck with how people perceive our country as well as some of the harsh realities of living here.

I feel like you insulted me for the actions of my country. Isn't this how racism and hate is spread? I'm now not worth knowing and should be shyed away from because of my country...

Edit: I think the downvotes are a bit uncalled for. The OP said people should avoid the US because of its practices. The OP didn't say ANY country with these practices, China, Middle East, North Korea, Russia. It was a very general statement that has is heavily opinion driven.

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#419

Post by jason_slack »

psv1 wrote: post #417
mlang23 wrote: post #399

Best thing is to just not have anything to do with the US of A. Death penalty, loaded guns everywhere, a general attitude of being the masters of the world which leads to things like suspicionless searches. No, thanks. I think the best would be if more people would actually stop dealing with the USA. Its becoming a trend. I once turned down an invitation to a conference in Hawai, and guess what, I was not alone.

Yes - on a personal level, I tend to avoid travelling to the US. For the same reasons that I avoid travelling to most of the Middle East or China.

I found my time in China rather pleasant. However, I am aware of other less positive stories about traveling in China.

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#420

Post by psv1 »

jason_slack wrote: post #419
psv1 wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes - on a personal level, I tend to avoid travelling to the US. For the same reasons that I avoid travelling to most of the Middle East or China.

I found my time in China rather pleasant. However, I am aware of other less positive stories about traveling in China.

> I found my time in China rather pleasant.

Yes. As are some places in the Middle East. And so so many places in the US are great too, of course. It's just that the attitude of those states (and the most extreme parts of the population) towards foreigners make most trips not worth the risk.

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