One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions • Hacker News Board

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#211

Post by dmos62 » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 10:44 AM UTC

mkohlmyr wrote: post #201

ahelwer wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Evolution has created the rules that one doesn't mix politics with business This 'rule' is a purely artificial construct encouraged to ensure the common employees keep their heads down and let those in charge continue screwing over them and/or society. The history of organized labor involves no less than straight murder of labor activists by company owners.

Neat. Yes there are legitimate cases in which politics should certainly enter the workplace (legitimate labour disputes definitely being among these). These are disputes that are more or less employees versus employers. But I don't see how anyone can reasonably make the case that (much of) the recent political activism at Google has been an example of defending general workers rights against abuses. It seems more lik…

Is not being surveilled not in the interest of "general workers"? That's hard to answer, because what exactly is the worker? All groups and subgroups are divided to some extent; there will not be a conflict without multiple layers of subdivision.

I agree that censorship of political discourse is a problem. Or religious, or of any subject. The "let's not talk politics amongst friends" (or at work) line of thought is a form of censorship that is in many ways self-imposed. I think that we're so bent on being right that we become blind to others' incentives, interests and other elements of subjectivity and lose the ability to resolve conflicts. Then the obvious option is to evade situations where we might have conflicts. A culture-wide communication problem. I'd like to see people comfortable discussing anything anytime with anyone.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#212

Post by high_derivative » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 10:44 AM UTC

askafriend wrote: post #137

xwdv wrote: post #29

At our company if the HR goes through your social media, and finds any evidence you may be socially activist or virtue signaling or otherwise very loudly proclaiming your disapproval of something some entity is doing, you will not be hired. You will not even get a call back. You will be labeled as a potential troublemaker (not in the good way) and be placed on the blacklist.

All this does is ensure only mediocre people are hired. What you described is how you might hire for McDonald’s, not a high growth company that is building something massive/valuable. I work with a group of the most talented people in the world at what they do and 0 of them would want to work in an environment you describe. In fact they won’t even consider a company remotely like what you describe.

I think that is a fantasy stemming from the idea that everyone who is talented and intelligent must basically agree with you politically. The world does not work like that. Talent comes in many shapes and forms. I know many people, myself included, at FAANG jobs who would love for a less political environment.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#213

Post by bjourne » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 10:44 AM UTC

nearbuy wrote: post #149

thephyber wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> just weird that people demand that their job adheres to whatever weird thing they like. This was literally a selling point at Google: > Larry Page and Sergey Brin ... had designed their company's famously open culture to facilitate free thinking. Employees were “obligated to dissent” if they saw something they disagreed with, and they were encouraged to “bring their whole selves” to work rather than check their pol…

> Larry Page and Sergey Brin ... had designed their company's famously open culture to facilitate free thinking. Employees were “obligated to dissent” if they saw something they disagreed with, and they were encouraged to “bring their whole selves” to work rather than check their politics and personal lives at the door. Seems like James Damore took their advice.

Yes. What is your point? Must you either be in favor of James Damore and against these Googlers who are trying to organize the workplace or vice versa? Can't everyone get to share their political views and also keep their jobs?

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#214

Post by cryptica » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 10:45 AM UTC

>> The tracking had made the staff in those departments feel unsafe

It's very strange how often this idea of 'feeling unsafe' is coming up in the media now. It seems that either:

- People have become more fragile/sensitive; or

- People have become more aggressive.

I think it may be both. I think corporations create extremely unnatural, oppressive and coercive environments which makes people more outwardly sensitive but inwardly more aggressive.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#215

Post by buboard » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 10:51 AM UTC

The Google news section sounds a lot like White House news lately.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#216

Post by angry_octet » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 10:51 AM UTC

goatinaboat wrote: post #142

skissane wrote: post #28

> The documents concerned a mandatory tool that was recently installed on the Google Chrome browser on workers’ computers, the employees said. In October, some Google employees raised concerns that the Chrome extension was an internal surveillance tool designed to monitor their attempts to organize protests. It would automatically report staffers who create a calendar event with more than 10 rooms or 100 participants…

Why create a Chrome extension to monitor usage of Google Calendar? Obviously for the “chilling effect”. Really rubbing it in the employee’s faces that they’re being surveilled.

Remember that those who decided calendar monitoring was the right approach are idiots. They don't think beyond what they intend to happen.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#217

Post by mkohlmyr » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 10:52 AM UTC

dmos62 wrote: post #211

mkohlmyr wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neat. Yes there are legitimate cases in which politics should certainly enter the workplace (legitimate labour disputes definitely being among these). These are disputes that are more or less employees versus employers. But I don't see how anyone can reasonably make the case that (much of) the recent political activism at Google has been an example of defending general workers rights against abuses. It seems more lik…

Is not being surveilled not in the interest of "general workers"? That's hard to answer, because what exactly is the worker? All groups and subgroups are divided to some extent; there will not be a conflict without multiple layers of subdivision. I agree that censorship of political discourse is a problem. Or religious, or of any subject. The "let's not talk politics amongst friends" (or at work) line of thought is a…

I'd love to live in a world where that was the case as well, but I'm not seeing much of that going around at the moment.

And yes, I'd agree that in this case it could likely be considered a general workplace issue where most employees would be on the same side against the corporation. I think the original comment was talking more about the recent instances of protests however (don't do business with X, Y, Z because it conflicts with my politics etc).

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#218

Post by buboard » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 10:52 AM UTC

say_it_as_it_is wrote: post #208

What we are seeing are the consequences of "Employee Capture". Google captured the hearts and minds of its employees for workplace productivity. Its side effects are varied. The real world only sees highlights. Googled created a bubble from which its employees can socialize without ever needing to do so with the outside world. Why talk politics with the outside world? Stay with us, where it is safe, people are intell…

Might this be the bigger problem of "bowling alone"? There s fewer and fewer places where small groups or people meet, and 1-to-1 socialization is not the same.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#219

Post by x220 » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 10:55 AM UTC

ahelwer wrote: post #13

xhkkffbf wrote: post #3

I've liked many things about Google over the years and I still admire many parts of their stack. But this crazy internal political culture is bound to end in a big kaboom and it looks like this might be it. Evolution has created the rules that one doesn't mix politics with business. Google has skirted this rule for some time but now it's not going to be pretty.

> Evolution has created the rules that one doesn't mix politics with business This 'rule' is a purely artificial construct encouraged to ensure the common employees keep their heads down and let those in charge continue screwing over them and/or society. The history of organized labor involves no less than straight murder of labor activists by company owners.

Googlers are debating "entertainment politics", not economic politics. Instead of unionizing, they're criticizing contracts with oil and gas companies, criticizing search engine censorship in China (but just in China; search engine censorship in the United States is apparently fine and dandy), and protesting that every executive doesn't get fired on the spot upon receiving a sexual harassment complaint.

They are not discussing the power imbalance between workers and the owners of capital. They are not discussing Google's abuse of private information at large. Just as many Americans watch Fox News or CNN every night and yell at the TV, Googlers are getting upset at tips of the iceberg.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#220

Post by PunchTornado » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 10:56 AM UTC

say_it_as_it_is wrote: post #208

What we are seeing are the consequences of "Employee Capture". Google captured the hearts and minds of its employees for workplace productivity. Its side effects are varied. The real world only sees highlights. Googled created a bubble from which its employees can socialize without ever needing to do so with the outside world. Why talk politics with the outside world? Stay with us, where it is safe, people are intell…

> earlier this month, more than 1,000 employees called on the company to cancel deals with oil and gas companies.

what's wrong with these employees? Keep your political opinions to yourself. So they propose that my company lose money because of your activism. Don't agree! What if some employees asked that Google cancel any deals with climate change NGOs? How would these employees feel about it?