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Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

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391–400 of 617 posts

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's certainly a crucial protection but if law enforcement conducts an embarrassing or destructive search (such as when police recently blew up a man's home), they can still essentially end you. But yes, it's good that you can't be simultaneously nailed in court with illegally collected evidence. * https://www.npr.org/2019/10/30/774788611/police-owe-nothing-...

And in such a case, you can sue for harassment. The police can't routinely violate your rights just for the heck of it, they need to show a good-faith belief that what they're doing is legal and could produce evidence useful in court.

From the article:

> But the problem with that argument, the appeals court ruled, is that courts have long held that police cannot be on the hook for property damage caused in the process of trying to make an arrest.

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#392

I’m not sure to whom the reasonable suspicion has to be announced? It makes it hard for me, a lay person, to understand the practical ramifications of this decision. Would the suspicion have to be announced to me, when I’m asked to unlock my phone, or would it have to be presented to a court, when they are asked to prosecute me based on the contents of my phone? If they find illegal content on my phone, wouldn’t the…

The search of a phone is like a search of any other thing in US law. Generally, searches require a warrant which implicitly requires probable cause, but there are some well-defined exceptions to the warrant requirement, and the probable cause requirement. One of these exceptions is the border search exception. US Courts have previously said this exception is reasonable for various reasons, and is an exception to both…

A lock screen is a reason for 'reasonable suspicion'? I'm not saying you're wrong, but it seems unreasonable. If I have a lock on my briefcase it isn't reasonable to suggest it's full of contraband.

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The phrase "well-regulated" is an idiom that means something like "working as expected, calibrated correctly, normal, regular". You can't interpret an idiom literally based solely on the words that it's made from - idioms have their own independent meaning. The following source gives examples from the Oxford English Dictionary of how the idiom was used from 1709 through 1894, demonstrating how the idiom 'well-regulat…

If it really is the case that the law is written in the form of an idiom then maybe we shouldn't be taking it as gospel and let it grant people right to individually own a weapon capable of murdering numerous people. I mean, if we really are going to say that the second amendment grants such rights then it's not too much to ask that it be explicit. The fact that it's not explicit is a good basis to interpret the phra…

I agree with you - laws should be written in as plain, simple, and timeless language as possible. Idioms are something that I'd try to avoid if I was writing laws today. However, in this instance, the operative clause of the amendment is clear:

    the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.
We can also understand the meaning of the amendment by examining the intentions, motivations, and beliefs of the people who wrote it -- what they were trying to achieve by doing so. There is extensive legislative history on this subject, which makes it clear that the founders believed that individual firearm ownership was an important and necessary preexisting right. The Supreme Court ruling that I've referenced goes into this history:

> By the time of the founding, the right to have arms had become fundamental for English subjects. Blackstone, whose works, we have said, “constituted the preeminent authority on English law for the founding generation,” cited the arms provision of the Bill of Rights as one of the fundamental rights of Englishmen. His description of it cannot possibly be thought to tie it to militia or military service. It was, he said, “the natural right of resistance and self-preservation,” and “the right of having and using arms for self-preservation and defence,”. Other contemporary authorities concurred. Thus, the right secured in 1689 as a result of the Stuarts’ abuses was by the time of the founding understood to be an individual right protecting against both public and private violence.

> And, of course, what the Stuarts had tried to do to their political enemies, George III had tried to do to the colonists. In the tumultuous decades of the 1760’s and 1770’s, the Crown began to disarm the inhabitants of the most rebellious areas. That provoked polemical reactions by Americans invoking their rights as Englishmen to keep arms. A New York article of April 1769 said that “[i]t is a natural right which the people have reserved to themselves, confirmed by the Bill of Rights, to keep arms for their own defence.” They understood the right to enable individuals to defend themselves. As the most important early American edition of Blackstone’s Commentaries (by the law professor and former Antifederalist St. George Tucker) made clear in the notes to the description of the arms right, Americans understood the “right of self-preservation” as permitting a citizen to “repe[l] force by force” when “the intervention of society in his behalf, may be too late to prevent an injury.”

> There seems to us no doubt, on the basis of both text and history, that the Second Amendment conferred an individual right to keep and bear arms. Of course the right was not unlimited, just as the First Amendment’s right of free speech was not, (...) [citations omitted]

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/554/570/#tab-opi...

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#394
post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in such a case, you can sue for harassment. The police can't routinely violate your rights just for the heck of it, they need to show a good-faith belief that what they're doing is legal and could produce evidence useful in court.

From the article: > But the problem with that argument, the appeals court ruled, is that courts have long held that police cannot be on the hook for property damage caused in the process of trying to make an arrest.

That was a rather different problem than directly harassing the unlawfully searched person.

In that case it was incompetence, gross negligence, and so on. Naturally it's hard to prove in court that the court's enforcement arm is at fault.

And at first the guy tried to sue for damages but that was thrown out - because it's so well established - but still that's the point that should be hammered.

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#395

Next stop, how about letting a foreigner visit the US for a week without having their fingerprints taken.

How about letting foreigners change airplanes without treating them like they plan to visit or be illegal immigrants? Canada, UK, I'm looking at you guys too.

Last time I changed airplanes in Canada: "How long do you plan to stay in Canada?" "Well my flight leaves in three hours." "Are you bringing any nuts or fruit in to Canada?"

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#396
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately there is still parallel construction: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction Honest question: can illegally obtained evidence be used to get a search warrant?

No, if a warrant is obtained using illegal evidence, then you poison the warrant and all the evidence arising from it. Parallel construction happens way less frequently than people think it does, since it requires that there be an actual parallel path to the evidence that would have been available at the time the evidence was improperly obtained. It's basically only upheld when evidence was collected improperly throu…

> Parallel construction happens way less frequently than people think it does

This seems like a rather vague claim

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The search of a phone is like a search of any other thing in US law. Generally, searches require a warrant which implicitly requires probable cause, but there are some well-defined exceptions to the warrant requirement, and the probable cause requirement. One of these exceptions is the border search exception. US Courts have previously said this exception is reasonable for various reasons, and is an exception to both…

A lock screen is a reason for 'reasonable suspicion'? I'm not saying you're wrong, but it seems unreasonable. If I have a lock on my briefcase it isn't reasonable to suggest it's full of contraband.

“lock screen with CP”

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#399
Best thing is to just not have anything to do with the US of A. Death penalty, loaded guns everywhere, a general attitude of being the masters of the world which leads to things like suspicionless searches. No, thanks. I think the best would be if more people would actually stop dealing with the USA. Its becoming a trend. I once turned down an invitation to a conference in Hawai, and guess what, I was not alone.

Re: Court: Suspicionless Searches of Travelers’ Phones and Laptops Unconstitutional

#400

Best thing is to just not have anything to do with the US of A. Death penalty, loaded guns everywhere, a general attitude of being the masters of the world which leads to things like suspicionless searches. No, thanks. I think the best would be if more people would actually stop dealing with the USA. Its becoming a trend. I once turned down an invitation to a conference in Hawai, and guess what, I was not alone.

As a european who is not always very fond of the US, this is ridiculous, and lazy thinking.

The amount of generalization and black and white simplifications to come up with such a thing is impressive though.

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