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More South Korean academics caught naming kids as co-authors

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Re: More South Korean academics caught naming kids as co-authors

#101

Post by n0rbwah »

kradroy wrote: post #65
sgillen wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do think it’s misleading to acknowledge the sorts of contributions children and dogs might make with co authorship. I do agree that often small contributions are rewarded with authorship, but really I think these are best credited in the acknowledgment section of the paper. Otherwise there is not a good way to distinguish between a substantial contribution and an ethereal one.

I should have put my grad advisor in the acknowledgements section of my 3 papers instead of as an author...

The difference being that it's often expected to put your advisor as a co-author even if their contribution was anecdotal while it's never expected to put your kids/pets as co-authors unless maybe there was a very significant contribution from their part.

Re: More South Korean academics caught naming kids as co-authors

#102

Post by pbhjpbhj »

esotericn wrote: post #81
wallace_f wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having worked on farms, with mechanics, and with grad students, I tend to believe grad students exaggerate their misery. While not always true, most grad students I know tend to have relatively good careers, which they are comparing grad school to. They also tend to be, relatively speaking, born into good fortune with finances and healthy families. This is not universally true, of course, but more often the case than…

Which probably means that they're not exaggerating their misery. The human experience is relative. If you're stronger than you were before you feel strong. If you're poorer than you were before you feel poor. Manual labour jobs have about as much bearing on how a graduate student feels about their day to day as does a gazelle being eaten by a lion.

I'm not sure about your conclusion. If you've never been eaten by a lion (!) then getting a scratch from a bramble seems like hardship.

Re: More South Korean academics caught naming kids as co-authors

#103

Post by fhennig »

intrnttrll wrote: post #74

I guess this is just another flavor of claiming one's kid was a top rower for their high school crew team. But I guess many parents will use whatever means then can ( legal or illegal ) to give their children a leg up. Also, I find it interesting that many schools ( in the US ) will do away with SAT scores because it is unfair to disadvantaged students. But they will not get rid of their legacy admissions program whi…

Wow. I just found out about legacy admissions. To me that seems insane. This is not how it is supposed to be! I wouldn't want to apply there now. If I have to work really hard and other people get in by association ...

Re: More South Korean academics caught naming kids as co-authors

#104

Post by shard »

pen2l wrote: post #88
koolba wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s sounds like it’d be an exceptional selection criteria. It shows hard work, dedication, follow through, and especially gumption. How many weeks total were you there?

It also sounds pretty unbelievable. You can't really just walk into some research hospitals and somehow find yourself talking to the right person who will get you in as a research intern. In my experiences, sadly, virtually all research interns are basically just the PI/member-of-lab's daughter/son or a collaborator's children/relatives. One reason I can think of as to why this is is that you do really need a filter,…

I didn't just walk into some random lab and find someone, I went to several places and spoke with some administrators who asked around for me before I found one which wanted an assistant. It wasn't any cutting edge or sexy research, maybe that was why they don't have enough interns. I don't remember it being particularly difficult to find, though.

@koolba, I don't recall how many months I worked there, somewhere around 3~4 months, maybe?

It was Mount Sinai Hospital in New York in the 90s, maybe things are different now.

Re: More South Korean academics caught naming kids as co-authors

#105

Post by saagarjha »

catalogia wrote: post #68
qrian wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry I meant the Korean one (CSAT?) which is indeed run by the government. That's interesting that American SAT is not run by the government directly.

It would be a bit odd for the American SAT to be run by the federal government when ACT vs SAT is so regional: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SAT-ACT-Preference-Map.sv...

I think the ACT largely exists because the SAT is not handled by the federal government.

Re: More South Korean academics caught naming kids as co-authors

#106

Post by fhennig »

droithomme wrote: post #16

I'm not sure this is always bad, as long is it's obvious it's not serious or for the purpose of fraud, or if the individual cited actually contributed in some way. Here's a researcher's dog, whose name was Galadriel Mirkwood, cited as a co-author: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polly_Matzinger#Dog_co-author_... Who is to say the dog did not contribute to the author's paper and research in some way she found significan…

Authorship is not a very well defined term, but I'm quite sure that by no definition can you be an author without actually contributing to the piece.

I think we should allow to water down the term 'Author'.

Re: More South Korean academics caught naming kids as co-authors

#107

Post by lkschubert8 »

tasogare wrote: post #91
EthanHeilman wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true. I think a lot of complaining about grad school comes from four areas: 1. As you point out people who become grad students are often fortunate people. They already have a college degree. They are able to do well enough at school to be accepted into a graduate program. This usually means that they could be getting paid 2-15X more while doing far less work at an industry job. So in comparison grad school i…

Also 2': you come in grad school to work on thing A, sub-thing B with method/tool C and your advisor makes you work on thing X, sub-thing Y with tool Z. Working on something you don't really care is way harder and a bit soul crushing. 3': you can be in a situation were you are micro-managed and required to do tasks for your advisors slightly or not even related to your subject. In my lab we have two weekly meetings,…

To your point about 2 I would say that the latter half probably applies to the majority of the working population.

Re: More South Korean academics caught naming kids as co-authors

#108

Post by mensetmanusman »

intrnttrll wrote: post #74

I guess this is just another flavor of claiming one's kid was a top rower for their high school crew team. But I guess many parents will use whatever means then can ( legal or illegal ) to give their children a leg up. Also, I find it interesting that many schools ( in the US ) will do away with SAT scores because it is unfair to disadvantaged students. But they will not get rid of their legacy admissions program whi…

The whole British system is based on biological legacy, and has been for centuries. I’m not sure it is unjust that I can’t be the king...

Re: More South Korean academics caught naming kids as co-authors

#109

Post by Ntrails »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #102
esotericn wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which probably means that they're not exaggerating their misery. The human experience is relative. If you're stronger than you were before you feel strong. If you're poorer than you were before you feel poor. Manual labour jobs have about as much bearing on how a graduate student feels about their day to day as does a gazelle being eaten by a lion.

I'm not sure about your conclusion. If you've never been eaten by a lion (!) then getting a scratch from a bramble seems like hardship.

The reality is that my frame of reference for discomfort and yours are different. Hunger is a great example. Plenty of people around the world subsist with hunger as a common companion. Others maintain it's _impossible_ to do anything useful whilst hungry.

> Take yourself for instance; yesterday you were better off than you are off today but it took today for you to realize it. But today has arrived and it's too late.

Re: More South Korean academics caught naming kids as co-authors

#110

Post by wallace_f »

whorleater wrote: post #79
wallace_f wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having worked on farms, with mechanics, and with grad students, I tend to believe grad students exaggerate their misery. While not always true, most grad students I know tend to have relatively good careers, which they are comparing grad school to. They also tend to be, relatively speaking, born into good fortune with finances and healthy families. This is not universally true, of course, but more often the case than…

Every friend I have with a job that involves picking up something heavier than a laptop more than twice a week eventually finds a way to slip something like this into conversation: “Bro, you don’t work hard. I just worked a 4700-hour week digging a tunnel under Mordor with a screwdriver.” They have a point. Mordor sucks, and it’s certainly more physically taxing to dig a tunnel than poke at a keyboard unless you’re a…

My programming job was really hard, and a lot harder than grad school in econ. I personally think domain matters a lot.
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