More South Korean academics caught naming kids as co-authors • Hacker News Board

Re: More South Korean academics caught naming kids as co-authors

#31

Post by SkyBelow » Tue, Nov 12, 2019, 9:59 PM UTC

antognini wrote: post #18

When I was in grad school our department had a meeting every morning where we could get together to discuss the latest papers which we called "Morning Coffee" (or also Astro Coffee). These discussions were pretty fruitful and regularly would inspire new papers. After writing a new paper based on one of these discussions one of the professors decided to commemorate the contribution of Morning Coffee to the paper and a…

Coffee, M. has published 7 different papers.

https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/search/q=author%3A%22Coffee%2C...

Re: More South Korean academics caught naming kids as co-authors

#32

Post by qrian » Tue, Nov 12, 2019, 10:00 PM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #22

Who thought it was a good idea to use academic paper authorship as a selection criteria for university!? There can't be enough high school kids writing academic papers for it to be that helpful, and certainly encourages this kind of cheating.

They don't have it as a selection criteria. Some context:

South Korean educational system recently had a crackdown on private academy(hakwon), and in their infinite wisdom, decided to ban every non-public educational experiences (including things like international olympiad awards) when applying for the university. Which means that the only thing you can submit in the application is SAT scores, some public education awards, and personal essays. Naturally it became the fight of who can write the most compelling personal essays for the university, and people started to let their children 'write' academic papers so that they can write stories to claim their interest and impetus on the application in hopes of impressing the judges.

So it is not a selection criteria but it helped rich & powerful people get an edge in the university application.

Re: More South Korean academics caught naming kids as co-authors

#33

Post by starpilot » Tue, Nov 12, 2019, 10:03 PM UTC

sithadmin wrote: post #24

starpilot wrote: post #15

I've heard of this happening in the US as well.

I've seen this happen in the US among my peers when I was in high school (mid 2000's). Parents with roles in medical / biomed research were by far the most prevalent offenders.

Yeah, similar with the (formerly Intel) Regeneron Science Talent Search. Every kid happens to have a parent who's an eminent researcher of some kind.

Re: More South Korean academics caught naming kids as co-authors

#34

Post by saagarjha » Tue, Nov 12, 2019, 10:05 PM UTC

qrian wrote: post #32

cortesoft wrote: post #22

Who thought it was a good idea to use academic paper authorship as a selection criteria for university!? There can't be enough high school kids writing academic papers for it to be that helpful, and certainly encourages this kind of cheating.

They don't have it as a selection criteria. Some context: South Korean educational system recently had a crackdown on private academy(hakwon), and in their infinite wisdom, decided to ban every non-public educational experiences (including things like international olympiad awards) when applying for the university. Which means that the only thing you can submit in the application is SAT scores, some public education…

> decided to ban every non-public educational experiences (including things like international olympiad awards)

How is an International Science Olympiad non-public?

Re: More South Korean academics caught naming kids as co-authors

#35

Post by smabie » Tue, Nov 12, 2019, 10:06 PM UTC

qwerty456127 wrote: post #30

> The practice was probably used to improve the children’s chances of securing a university place. The fact the competition to get into a university is so hard you need to co-author a scientific paper for this is the problem. Education should be accessible for everybody.

It is. It’s called the library.

Re: More South Korean academics caught naming kids as co-authors

#36

Post by nemoniac » Tue, Nov 12, 2019, 10:09 PM UTC

antognini wrote: post #18

When I was in grad school our department had a meeting every morning where we could get together to discuss the latest papers which we called "Morning Coffee" (or also Astro Coffee). These discussions were pretty fruitful and regularly would inspire new papers. After writing a new paper based on one of these discussions one of the professors decided to commemorate the contribution of Morning Coffee to the paper and a…

If you're in Astronomy, you may be amused to read that there is some intriguing history on virtual authors:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpher%E2%80%93Bethe%E2%80%93G...

Re: More South Korean academics caught naming kids as co-authors

#37

Post by yabadabadoes » Tue, Nov 12, 2019, 10:09 PM UTC

notjesse wrote: post #14

dooglius wrote: post #11

See also: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._D._C._Willard I don't see anything wrong with this if the parents want to share credit with their kids. In any case, there are many cases where authorship is shared with people who didn't contribute, if universities are taking it at face value that's on them. Also, who is to say that the kids weren't onvolved in some way, maybe just as a person to bounce ideas off of.

If the kids made serious contributions, that is one thing. However, that really doesn’t seem to be the case here. Nepotism is majorly harmful. If their kids go into academia, they already have a huge leg up from having academic parents. Let alone if they already have a strong publishing record which they did not merit. You really harm those who don’t come from that background, which of course, is how class divide can…

Yes, but I actually think primary authors in title actually being grant proposal writers and middle managers is far more destructive to academia itself.

I think it is the norm that a lot of people get primary credit on papers for doing what managers in every field do every day, and academia is busy obscuring their own processes as a result.

Re: More South Korean academics caught naming kids as co-authors

#38

Post by Nasrudith » Tue, Nov 12, 2019, 10:10 PM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #34

qrian wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have it as a selection criteria. Some context: South Korean educational system recently had a crackdown on private academy(hakwon), and in their infinite wisdom, decided to ban every non-public educational experiences (including things like international olympiad awards) when applying for the university. Which means that the only thing you can submit in the application is SAT scores, some public education…

> decided to ban every non-public educational experiences (including things like international olympiad awards) How is an International Science Olympiad non-public?

It is run by a non-profit as opposed to a government. Granted the SAT would also qualify as non-public so that just confuses things further.

Re: More South Korean academics caught naming kids as co-authors

#39

Post by saagarjha » Tue, Nov 12, 2019, 10:11 PM UTC

An interesting spin-off I’ve witnessed here in the United States is putting a younger sibling’s name on papers and research reports submitted to things like the Intel STS and the Siemens Competition. It’s hard to show that there’s evidence of unequal contribution here.

Re: More South Korean academics caught naming kids as co-authors

#40

Post by qrian » Tue, Nov 12, 2019, 10:12 PM UTC

Nasrudith wrote: post #38

saagarjha wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> decided to ban every non-public educational experiences (including things like international olympiad awards) How is an International Science Olympiad non-public?

It is run by a non-profit as opposed to a government. Granted the SAT would also qualify as non-public so that just confuses things further.

Sorry I meant the Korean one (CSAT?) which is indeed run by the government. That's interesting that American SAT is not run by the government directly.