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Egypt has shut off the Internet (update: not everywhere)

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Re: Egypt has shut off the Internet (update: not everywhere)

#91

Post by sliverstorm »

nitrogen wrote: post #85
sliverstorm wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always been under the impression the reason mesh networks haven't taken off is because of the cost & speed benefits of centralized colocation data centers and trans-continental backbones, but maybe I'm just not paranoid enough.

The paranoid conspiracy theorist in me also suspects that this is why the FCC fought against UWB approval. http://stevencrowley.com/2010/09/02/ultra-wideband-how-regul... There are many devices using UWB, but as far as I know, none of them allow long-range communication: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_USB http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=4318

Reading that article carefully, I think what happened is this:

- UWB failed because it was out-competed

- it was out-competed because it was using a new spectrum, while the competition was using the already existing 2.4GHz channel, so it had to deal with the FCC when the competition simply didn't.

i.e. it sounds like they just had an extra hurdle to jump (and a bureaucratic one at that) that made it hard to win, rather than the FCC actively attempting to prevent it's use.

Re: Egypt has shut off the Internet (update: not everywhere)

#92

Post by iwwr »

jseliger wrote: post #80
redthrowaway wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say Iran managed to show that brutal repression can be pretty damned effective at propping up a regime that couldn't survive the free flow of ideas.

Over the short term, yes. But Iran has a history of revolutions: IIRC, a revolution in 1920s brought down an old monarchy, the Shahs went back and forth for a while (sometimes with US aid), and the "Islamic" revolution of 1979 that most Americans are used to. In other words, Iran is due for another revolution, which is one of the stronger arguments against bombing the country (and which we might have to do anyway, th…

Right now, the threat of US invasion (or at least attack) is keeping the opposition in check.

Re: Egypt has shut off the Internet (update: not everywhere)

#93

Post by cturner »

alexqgb wrote: post #76
redthrowaway wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say Iran managed to show that brutal repression can be pretty damned effective at propping up a regime that couldn't survive the free flow of ideas.

One big difference is that Iran's Revolutionary Guard isn't directly financed by the US State Department to the tune of $1.6 billion. That dollar amount is becoming increasingly public here in the US. If the Police in Egypt start running around with machetes and hunting down dissidents to murder them like they did in Iran, the American government is going to have a hard time maintaining the completely bullshit "Mubar…

The partner in peace line is appropriate.

Egypt is active in working towards regional peace.

Consider how Egypt could instead by run. It could be led by religious group and be something like Iran. Or it could be led by the stereotype arab despot - constantly picking fights with Israel to create a distraction and channel the country's hatred at somebody outside the borders.

Mubarak doesn't set a high bar, but if all the middle east leaders were merely as good as him, the region would be a much better place.

Re: Egypt has shut off the Internet (update: not everywhere)

#94

Post by rue »

nkassis wrote: post #14
locopati wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing what US funding can do for a government, isn't it?

That is true. Not many people know that after Israel, Egypt is the second largest beneficiary of US foreign aid money. But I find it hard to judge the decision of the US gov when that deal was cut considering it's been 40 years. And support for the Egyptian communist gov goes back to Eisenhower.

Egypt doesn't have a “communist government”, even in name.

Re: Egypt has shut off the Internet (update: not everywhere)

#95

Post by iwwr »

seancron wrote: post #26
jacquesm wrote: post #21

Any government currently in power will have an item in its playbook titled 'shut down public internet access', right next to a folder labeled 'island mode' and 'totally dark'. Some will be upfront about it, some will be more circumspect but media control has long been one of the central points in crowd control and just like newspapers, radio and TV stations are with some regularity taken over by the government (Italy…

Which makes me wonder, is there a way to make an ad-hoc, decentralized internet that a government could not shut down?

The government needs the internet for its own internal communications. Also, the banking system or any electronic commerce can't function. Just imagine the world going back to 1980. A parasite can't risk outright killing its host.

Re: Egypt has shut off the Internet (update: not everywhere)

#96

Post by [deleted] »

locopati wrote: post #10
nkassis wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how dictatorship work and why they often fail. You just can't keep this stuff working for ever. Egypt's dictatorship gov has managed to last this long which is impressive.

It's amazing what US funding can do for a government, isn't it?

[deleted]

Re: Egypt has shut off the Internet (update: not everywhere)

#97

Post by redthrowaway »

cturner wrote: post #93
alexqgb wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One big difference is that Iran's Revolutionary Guard isn't directly financed by the US State Department to the tune of $1.6 billion. That dollar amount is becoming increasingly public here in the US. If the Police in Egypt start running around with machetes and hunting down dissidents to murder them like they did in Iran, the American government is going to have a hard time maintaining the completely bullshit "Mubar…

The partner in peace line is appropriate. Egypt is active in working towards regional peace. Consider how Egypt could instead by run. It could be led by religious group and be something like Iran. Or it could be led by the stereotype arab despot - constantly picking fights with Israel to create a distraction and channel the country's hatred at somebody outside the borders. Mubarak doesn't set a high bar, but if all t…

>if all the middle east leaders were merely as good as him, the region would be a much better place.

No it wouldn't. It might be a better place for Israel, but it would still be a terrible place for Arabs.

Egyptians are rebelling for a reason: They have no jobs, and no food. They are kept under the heel of a brutal dictatorship. So are Saudis and Yemenis and everyone else the West likes.

The US props up the Egyptian dictatorship because Mubarak is pro-west and willing to work with the international community re: Israel. That doesn't make him good. He's still a brutal dictator, in charge of a corrupt regime. It's no secret that Islamic fundamentalism originated in Egypt, and it's no wonder why.

Now, that's not to say the Lebanese or Syrians or Palestinians have it any better. The Iranians do, but that's a separate issue. The point is, the US needs to pull its head out of its ass in regards to foreign policy and stop propping up brutal dictators who happen to have a convergence of short-term interests with the west. From Hussein to Pinochet to Suharto to the Shah to the Sauds to Noriega to Pap & Baby Doc to Trujillo to Batista to at least a dozen others, the United States has, for the better part of a century, installed or backed countless brutal dictators the world round. First in the name of the fight against communism, then drugs, then oil, the US has always found a way to ensure people are tortured and murdered if it furthers their aims.

This might come across as an anti-American rant. It isn't. It is, however, a rant against the willful ignorance of those who think the United States acts in anything other than its own interests, or that it gives a rats ass about the suffering caused by its actions.

The Arab world, and the world as a whole, would be far better served if the US and Iran let the arab people determine their own future. Unfortunately, that would mean the end to cheap oil, so it won't happen.

Re: Egypt has shut off the Internet (update: not everywhere)

#98

Post by JoachimSchipper »

danenania wrote: post #70
jemfinch wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans may be docile, but businesses and corporations are not. What do you think the proprietors of the thousands of POPs across America are going to tell the feds who come to shut them down? What do you think Google or Microsoft or Facebook are going to say when the government tries to cut off their primary source of income? Do you really think the same corporations that extensively lobby the government now are g…

"What do you think Google or Microsoft or Facebook are going to say when the government tries to cut off their primary source of income?" They're going to say: "how much will you pay us to help you do it?" The answer will be "a lot" as it's always been. And the answer if they don't comply will be "you're finished". Standard mafioso tactics. Are you really expecting giant corporations to have principles at all, not to…

> The filthily rich throughout history haven't exactly been the harbingers of revolution.

Actually, more than one revolution was an attempt by the rich to overthrow the powerful.

Re: Egypt has shut off the Internet (update: not everywhere)

#99

Post by nika »

Zak wrote: post #18

I read this, and become more concerned about bills to give the US President an Internet kill-switch. They say it's to protect against cyber-warfare, but something makes me think it's just as likely to be applied to civil unrest, and civil unrest doesn't usually happen unless there's something pretty wrong with the government.

The situation in america will not change until people stop supporting those who enact and propose legislation like this.

Who wants to give the president the kill switch? It would be good to know a full list of all sponsors of such a bill and whether Obama has endorsed it or not. Regardless of party, these people who have not even read the US constitution (or comprehended it if they have) should not be re-elected.

Re: Egypt has shut off the Internet (update: not everywhere)

#100

Post by redthrowaway »

iwwr wrote: post #92
jseliger wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over the short term, yes. But Iran has a history of revolutions: IIRC, a revolution in 1920s brought down an old monarchy, the Shahs went back and forth for a while (sometimes with US aid), and the "Islamic" revolution of 1979 that most Americans are used to. In other words, Iran is due for another revolution, which is one of the stronger arguments against bombing the country (and which we might have to do anyway, th…

Right now, the threat of US invasion (or at least attack) is keeping the opposition in check.

There is no threat.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/04/mullen-please-for-th...

http://www.dnaindia.com/opinion/main-article_why-the-us-can-...

http://www.gwynnedyer.com/articles/Gwynne%20Dyer%20article_%...

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