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Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

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Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#441

Post by beefield »

refurb wrote: post #384
beefield wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everything is super different and weird and kinda bad, and nobody seems to notice. I have this a bit uneasy impression[1] that a really significant chunk of US is basically a developing country with bigger cars. [1] Based only on visiting a few developing countries as well as a few states of US. Not on any statistics or data whatsoever.

Comparing the US to third world countries makes me think you never really visited a developing country. Maybe just flew through the airport?

To be honest, I have spent way more time in developing countries[1] than in US. Even some time in the least developed counties to understand that the developing/least developed countries are a really diverse group. As is US in my humble and limited opinion. Wealthier areas of developing countries and not so wealthy areas of US are easily comparable in many measures in my opinion.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developing_country

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#442

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

draw_down wrote: post #246
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for years as an engineer and manager at a legendary Japanese corporation, known for their quality. It was a frustrating experience. Their obsession with quality made even the smallest tasks difficult and tedious. 3,000-line testing spreadsheets, where even one failure pooched the whole deal. But you can’t argue with the results. Good quality is difficult and tedious. I like to think that the work I do is of…

> Their obsession with quality made even the smallest tasks difficult and tedious. 3,000-line testing spreadsheets, where even one failure pooched the whole deal. Sounds good to me.

Yes. It taught me a lot. I am still obsessed with quality, to this day.

That obsession was not the problem. Frustrating, but it set them apart.

Note that I worked there for many years. That indicates that we probably shared many values, and that I was respected; despite sometimes holding orthogonal points of view.

I do feel as if we could have done more with software, though. What works for hardware does not necessarily scale to software.

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#443

Post by Scarblac »

pflats wrote: post #289
kstenerud wrote: post #2

It's interesting to note the difference in communication styles when company PR teams respond to requests for comments. Fiat Chrysler and Chevy both responded in predictable marketroid speak, complete with extensive use of passive voice and grand, hand-wavey platitudes "We care committed to blah blah blah" "Quality is of the greatest importance blah blah blah" "blah blah above industry average blah blah blah" "blah b…

I felt the opposite. Tesla's answer came across the worst to me, and reads to me with the over-specificity of a student making excuses for why their paper isn't done on time. > "It was a supplier-related issue". Passing the buck is really not a great look to start with. It makes the rest of the response seem like a series of excuses. Tesla chose the supplier. Tesla built and inspected and sold and shipped the car wit…

Yes, but the others don't say anything. That Tesla does this makes them look bad (e.g. your comment) but it's more information for the customer, and that's a good thing.

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#444

Post by nwallin »

dajohnson89 wrote: post #274
AcerbicZero wrote: post #251

Its not a direct comparison, but having owned cars from Japan, the US, and Germany, watching the videos of cars being made by the major manufacturers makes the difference somewhat obvious. I've linked them below, but just looking at the factory processes, the workers, and the methods used it seems the German process is just designed to build cars with tighter tolerances. The cars don't move down assembly lines with h…

it's worth pointing out that a porsche 911 base MSRP is ~$110,000, while a corvette base starts around $60k.

Last time I checked, everything was an optional extra in 911s too. Even stuff that is a standard feature on cheap econoboxes. Last I looked there was something utterly bizarre as an expensive optional extra, it was something like powered windows or remote locks. Something that I didn't even know didn't come as standard in a car. I wish I could remember what it was. (this was like 2010, so whatever it was might have changed, but it was still grossly out of place back then. It was not air conditioning, that at least makes sense from a weight perspective on a performance car.)

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#445

Post by ptaipale »

delecti wrote: post #287
ptaipale wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric cars are not that much simpler than ICE cars. The drivetrain is simpler, but most parts of the car are similar and share the same potential weaknesses. The body may rust, the doors have hinges and seals that may leak water, the windscreen may crack or its seams may leak, the brake discs will wear out (even if more slowly due to energy regeneration feature), the brake fluid pipes may corrode and leak, the sus…

The problems I've had to repair on the cars I've owned have mostly been things that don't exist on an electric car. If you weight repairs by cost, then it skews even further. And probably most of the ones that would still apply to an electric are maintenance tasks (replacing bulbs, brakes, tires). All of the non-drive bits of the car are still there, but in my experience those just don't fail as often, and they can g…

Interesting. From what I have heard, Toyota Prius, which as a traditional hybrid has both an internal combustion engine with its drivetrain and electrical drivetrain and batteries, does not suffer from much more drivetrain defects than pure electric (or pure ICE) cars. Toyota is generally known for quality build and good aftermarket care.

Prius gets more rejects in the annual inspection in my country (Finland) than e.g. Avensis or Corolla which are powered by gasoline or diesel ICE, but the primary defect sources are - brakes - suspension faults - front wheel assembly defects (typically ball joints and tie rod ends) - tyres (which are too worn)

Why are suspension faults are more common in Prius than in other Toyotas? I would guess it is because of the weight of the drivetrains, engines and batteries.

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#446

Post by ptaipale »

bradstewart wrote: post #239
ptaipale wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't believe Tesla gets any worse parts than other manufacturers. Those parts come from the same production line. They are the same parts. Almost all of the automotive industry uses the same parts, chosen from a fairly limited variety of models, produced in great numbers. The design of a car has a great impact on how long those parts last. It's easy to blame a parts supplier for faults that are because of y…

Do auto parts manufacturers bin their products in a way similar to what Intel and AMD do with CPUs? Where the "less perfect" die become lower-end SKUs, or certain batch numbers are known for being better overclockers, etc. If certain units are manufactured "perfectly" while others come off the line in spec but close to their limits, I could see the suppliers prioritizing their bigger customers. I have absolutely no i…

I don't really know, but I would expect that the different quality classes are marketed as such with slightly different product codes, and the buyer needs to be aware what he's procuring. And that you know what category of parts you buy for your manufacture is generally a key competence and an important process in car manufacturing.

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#447

Post by Betelgeuse90 »

oflannabhra wrote: post #316

I'm an American and I will probably never buy another American made car again until we switch to EV. Time for anecdotes! I'm in the process of changing our families vehicles: I've sold our Toyota Tundra and purchased a Toyota Sequoia, and I'm currently selling our Honda CR-V and will be downsizing to a Toyota Matrix or Honda Fit. The Tundra has been one of the most amazing vehicles I've ever owned. I bought it used w…

I think a considerable amount of Toyotas are actually made in the US, ironically, so you might still call it American made :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Toyota_factories#Unite...

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#448

Post by toomuchtodo »

philwelch wrote: post #440
toomuchtodo wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For not building a non-internal combustion vehicle.

There’s no sensible use case for one that isn’t more effectively satisfied with a plug-in hybrid?

Plug in hybrid is double the complexity (combustion and EV powertrains) when having a charging network negates the need for the combustion component.

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#449

Post by FussyZeus »

hartator wrote: post #386
FussyZeus wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of my favorite aspects of the writing in Outer Worlds: that no one who works for a corporation is ever, ever allowed to speak ill of it, of it's products, or anything even tangentially related to the corporation. It's hilarious the mental gymnastics these fictional people will leap through to avoid earning the ire of their employer, and it's absolutely shocking how true-to-life it often is.

`Outer Worlds` the video game? I want to play it now.

Correct. It's quite good, though the combat is a little one-dimensional and cast against the design, writing, and world-building, it's very much turned into a situation where the game itself is sort of an obstacle to what I'm enjoying in the game. I don't think it will prompt a re-play but I am thoroughly enjoying it.

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#450

Post by rednerrus »

sunstone wrote: post #425
pflats wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I felt the opposite. Tesla's answer came across the worst to me, and reads to me with the over-specificity of a student making excuses for why their paper isn't done on time. > "It was a supplier-related issue". Passing the buck is really not a great look to start with. It makes the rest of the response seem like a series of excuses. Tesla chose the supplier. Tesla built and inspected and sold and shipped the car wit…

If I had to choose, I would choose specifics over platitudes.

Especially specifics backed by OTA fixes.
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