Live data from Hacker News

Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

jalopnik.com

421–430 of 475 posts

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#421

Yeah, as a Kiwi, I'm entirely unsurprised. I've owned Japanese cars from various manufacturers, but the absolute worst I owned was a Toyota Cavalier - a rebadged Chevrolet as part of some trade deal between the US and Japan - that the Japanese steered well clear of and immediately exported to NZ and Aus. It had a great wee 4 cylinder 2.4L engine, a hell of a lot of fun to drive, but it was of notorious build quality…

In the US the J-bodies (Cavalier being one of them) are regarded as somewhat disposable cars. In the US, the repair story is somewhat better, but that was more a result of the abundance of them in the states. The bigger reason that Japanese buyers stayed away from the Cavalier was probably due to it's engine size (JP taxes at certain displacements, I know going over 2.0L is a bump) as well as vehicle size (at least a…

The Saturn plant had the advantage of a greenfield factory site and a motivated workforce, but I don't think that the product was ever as defect-free as the the Corollas coming from Fremont-also a GM plant, with a UAW workforce. Pretty close at times, though.

...thing is, the designs for the car, the plant, the tooling, the engines and the transmissions (unique to the Saturn SL1&2, used in no other GM product) the marketing, the dealership subsidies...all cost $12,000,000,000 in today's dollars.

Chevy and Pontiac execs were fond of pointing out that the overhead of the Saturn project was so huge, that if GM just described the car to customers, and gave anyone who wanted a Saturn a new Cavalier, GM would actually lose less money than building and selling Saturns. You can buy a shitload of Cavaliers for twelve billion dollars.

Of course, the original SL1 and 2 were updated with new-looking plastic interiors and body panels, but the basic car was still the same one that they debuted in 1989 when they stopped selling them in 2003. If it costs you that much to design a new economy car, you can't do it often, so the product goes stale, and fewer people buy it, and it costs more per unit to pay for upgrades etc.

GM's inability to make its warring individual states cooperate is a goldmine of WTF moments in business history. Though I lay the Saturn debacle mostly at the Alden-shod feet of the late Roger B. Smith (of Roger & Me fame...)

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#422
post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the problem though, all your competitors go cheap, you go cheap. Customers (often, not always) don't notice until it affects them, and eventually acclimate to the new normal that is trash service. Just see for example how shitty phone bots have replaced call centers which were already outsourced. The thing is no one chooses a cellular provider based on the customer service, we generally just accept the servic…

Yeah, that's true in a lot of industries. Airlines are another obvious example. I pay more for our internet company (Aussie Broadband) because they promise not to over-provision and they have local support staff on the phone. They've been very quick to answer and helpful when I had to call and are willing to skip the basic troubleshooting when I explain what I've done already. And I've never had the evening peak slow…

In the US those options don't exist. The whole field has found its maximization of variables at worse service, where the variables do not include customer satisfaction.

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#423
post #299

I hate it when a vendor replies, as appeared in this article, that the problem was "a supplier-related issue". I purchased the product from you, not the supplier. You're responsible for what you shipped me. By contrast: there are many reasons to criticize pharma companies but they don't take suppliers' word for any materials. Dell doesn't blame Delta when they ship bad power supplies, they take responsibility. But so…

The Tesla response as a whole was miles better than the ones from the other American manufacturers.

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#424
post #289

It's interesting to note the difference in communication styles when company PR teams respond to requests for comments. Fiat Chrysler and Chevy both responded in predictable marketroid speak, complete with extensive use of passive voice and grand, hand-wavey platitudes "We care committed to blah blah blah" "Quality is of the greatest importance blah blah blah" "blah blah above industry average blah blah blah" "blah b…

I felt the opposite. Tesla's answer came across the worst to me, and reads to me with the over-specificity of a student making excuses for why their paper isn't done on time. > "It was a supplier-related issue". Passing the buck is really not a great look to start with. It makes the rest of the response seem like a series of excuses. Tesla chose the supplier. Tesla built and inspected and sold and shipped the car wit…

>Tesla chose the supplier. Tesla built and inspected and sold and shipped the car with those parts. This is a Tesla-related issue.

They are new at mass manufacturing and no doubt learned a lesson from this incident. And that is the whole point of their response, unlike the other American manufacturers they are successfully working away at rapidly improving quality and reliability. And you are angry at them for that.

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#425
post #289

It's interesting to note the difference in communication styles when company PR teams respond to requests for comments. Fiat Chrysler and Chevy both responded in predictable marketroid speak, complete with extensive use of passive voice and grand, hand-wavey platitudes "We care committed to blah blah blah" "Quality is of the greatest importance blah blah blah" "blah blah above industry average blah blah blah" "blah b…

I felt the opposite. Tesla's answer came across the worst to me, and reads to me with the over-specificity of a student making excuses for why their paper isn't done on time. > "It was a supplier-related issue". Passing the buck is really not a great look to start with. It makes the rest of the response seem like a series of excuses. Tesla chose the supplier. Tesla built and inspected and sold and shipped the car wit…

If I had to choose, I would choose specifics over platitudes.

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#426

Is this new? I'd be curious to know the last time it wasn't true, outside of Tesla. I'm guessing you'd have to go back to the 60s or early 70s. I actually think US cars have improved tremendously in the last decade, though.

they have improved. the measure in the article is relative reliability. Almost any car now is more reliable than the best cars from 30 years ago.

I mean relative to the foreign competition. There's still a gap, but at least in terms of fit and finish it has narrowed. That's more initial quality than reliability, I guess.

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Innovative in 1997 (first Prius model year), not so much 22 years later. They're coasting on that tech at this point. Tesla was incorporated in 2003, and has existed for only 16 years. What's Toyota's (an 80 year old manufacturing and logistics behemoth) excuse? Rhetorical. Entrenched interests (both internally and at dealers) and a lack of courage.

Excuse for what? I don’t even understand the rhetorical question.

For not building a non-internal combustion vehicle.

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#428
post #40
post #5

This is a bit flame bait-y but I really feel like America is getting a super Galapagos effect compared to the rest of the world. Everything is super different and weird and kinda bad, and nobody seems to notice. I go to peoples houses in the US sometimes. Some of these houses are multimillion dollar homes. The doors are all terrible. The plumbing is crap. The furniture just feels bad. The cheapest studio apartment in…

I think there is something to this, but in my experience they just don't care. Their stuff is optimized for their own cultural values, which you perhaps expect to be more like your own than they are. I have had American visitors marvel at the (German built) windows in my French home, calling them something you'd see on a space station. On the other hand they think I must be having money problems for not having a tumb…

After hanging the laundry outside, won't you need to wash it again? Most countries have things birds, rodents, and pollen.

Do you always have dry non-freezing weather? If the humidity stays high, the clothes will get moldy before they dry. If the temperature is low, you'll get ice in your clothes. There may even be rain.

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s that then? I live in Western New Zealand (Tasmania), and we have to adjust the temperature too.

You can set a temperature on a thermostatic shower head and you just adjust the flow of water. Most newer bathrooms have thermostatic shower heads in Europe. But even the old ones with hot + cold valves allow you to not only set the temperature but also the flow. I think most US showers have just a single faucet where you can control the temperature but not the pressure/flow. You always have to go from cold to hot (i…

This is due to the law. Flow rate through a shower is limited. There is no point having an adjustable rate if everybody wants more than a legal showerhead can provide.

Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings

#430

Its not a direct comparison, but having owned cars from Japan, the US, and Germany, watching the videos of cars being made by the major manufacturers makes the difference somewhat obvious. I've linked them below, but just looking at the factory processes, the workers, and the methods used it seems the German process is just designed to build cars with tighter tolerances. The cars don't move down assembly lines with h…

I've also always noticed American factories seem okay with workers showing up in whatever they want - i.e. you see in that video they are wearing their own t-shirts. To me this shows a lack of seriousness and pride in the work and team unity. It also shows a lack of respect for safety workwear and process. It shows the employer is likely cheap, and doesn't want to pay for workwear, and furthers my impression that they view their workers as disposable. IMO, it looks absolutely ridiculous how in the Corvette video one guy is wearing basketball shorts and Vans and the woman next to him is wearing a different T-shirt and jeans. Compare to the harmony shown in the German video. Please don't try to tell me that individuality is important in a vehicle assembly line!
Post reply on HN