Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think anyone is arguing that they're the absolute worst carmaker. A comparison to Toyota or Honda would have been a better choice. I don't want a power plant that is advertised as "more earthquake resistant than Fukushima" in my backyard.
Can you compare Tesla to a manufacturer who innovates very little (Toyota or Honda) and simply churns out the same internal combustion engine 10 million times a year? I don't think so. All depends on what you're optimizing for. I can't get an EV from Toyota or Honda (at least not one that competes with our S and X), so I deal with some fit and finish and reliability issues. Powertrain has been rock solid. Charging ne…
Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings
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Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
It can’t be better - the US basically HAS no street food outside of New York.
I visited Portland a few years ago and the quantity and quality of street food being offered was amazing. There were entire squares packed with vendors. I enjoy the street food scene in London, but I'd choose Portland over it any day.
Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings
#303Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you compare Tesla to a manufacturer who innovates very little (Toyota or Honda) and simply churns out the same internal combustion engine 10 million times a year? I don't think so. All depends on what you're optimizing for. I can't get an EV from Toyota or Honda (at least not one that competes with our S and X), so I deal with some fit and finish and reliability issues. Powertrain has been rock solid. Charging ne…
I thought the Toyota hybrid engines were very innovative.
Tesla was incorporated in 2003, and has existed for only 16 years. What's Toyota's (an 80 year old manufacturing and logistics behemoth) excuse? Rhetorical. Entrenched interests (both internally and at dealers) and a lack of courage.
Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings
#304Its not a direct comparison, but having owned cars from Japan, the US, and Germany, watching the videos of cars being made by the major manufacturers makes the difference somewhat obvious. I've linked them below, but just looking at the factory processes, the workers, and the methods used it seems the German process is just designed to build cars with tighter tolerances. The cars don't move down assembly lines with h…
Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings
#305Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings
#306Earlier quoted context omitted.
Words are cheap. They’re under investigation for possibly hiding recall and issuing OTA instead that surprised people with sudden range loss ( https://www.businessinsider.com/nhtsa-investigating-tesla-up... ) They force customers to go over arbitration to fix yellowing entertainment screen on cars as young as few months. They tell people it’s normal wear and tear due to using cat in the sun ( https://teslamotorsclub.…
Perhaps the grandparent comment was actually talking about the quality of Tesla’s Public Relations department. Otherwise it would strike me as odd that someone would boost a vehicle manufacturer that doesn’t sell spare parts, in a thread on vehicle reliability. Edited a few words to better express my point.
Or just walk into a service center. Tesla now undercuts all third party prices on parts.
Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings
#307> CR says Chrysler’s Pacifica was one that contributed to the drop in rankings thanks to the minivan’s infotainment and transmission issues. Every single "downgrade" I read about is either infotainment or transmission or both. Except Honda, which apparently has shit locks on it's kid hauler. I'm a bit skeptical of consumer reports after actually reading it. My car, a Subaru WRX is given low marks for "stiff ride and…
Consumer Reports’ subscriber base trends older which is obviously not the same demographic as affordable performance car buyers. CR is still a great resource if you know nothing about a product market but enthusiasts outgrow it.
Safety, infotainment, door locks, and so on are of the utmost importance if you're carting a bunch of kids around. Stiff suspensions and engine noise are anti-features. Those priorities are reversed among driving enthusiasts, but that's not who the magazine's written for.
Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings
#308Earlier quoted context omitted.
German cars tend to be less reliable than Japanese ones, as in this survey, possibly due to those tolerance. My 2018 German car feels a lot nicer than a 2018 Toyota, but has already had more problems, too. :| Sometimes I wonder if the US auto industry suffers a bit competitively vs Germany and Japan due to a higher amount of "brain drain" to other higher-paying forms of STEM jobs in tech.
Japanese manufacturers have found a good balance between simplicity and modern tech (see Mazda, Suzuki). German cars tend to be over-engineered; lots of modern tech in the vehicle + manufacturing, whereas American cars tend to be quite the opposite.
Think of the fourth-gen Toyota Supra or any version of the Nissan Skyline GT-R. Or the Toyota Soarer/Lexus SC, which was basically a detuned Supra packed with luxury equipment and unique styling. They were technological marvels whose engines were overengineered beasts that could take ridiculous amounts of abuse.
Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings
#309Earlier quoted context omitted.
The seats are comfy enough, the steering wheel is beefy, the only point of failure I've had is the battery. Otherwise, it's exactly what it's supposed to be. CR give my other car, a Jaguar F-Pace low marks for "loud engine and cabin, stiff choppy ride and bad infotainment." Which to me sounds like a lot of soccer mom's thought they were getting "luxury" utility vehicle but accidentally purchase a 350hp supercharged v…
> Cars are for driving, not "infotainment". If you're one of the ~30 million Americans, crawling along in your single-occupant vehicle through rush-hour gridlock, you will care a lot more about the 'infotainment' part of your car than the 'driving' part.
Re: Every American Car Brand Is on the Bottom Half of CR's Reliability Rankings
#310Now, I don't know how true this is, or what definition of "average" was being used in those statements (mean, median, or mode), but let's roll with it. Assuming a normal distribution, that would mean half the cars built last less than 3 years, some significantly less so, and half the cars built last longer than 3 years, again, some significantly more so. Depending on how wide the distribution is, that could mean that there's simultaneously a lot of shitbox lemons and a lot of indestructible workhorses at the same time. And regardless of how wide that distribution actually is, that would explain the varying reports of various US-built cars I've personally heard: some glowingly praising reliability that rivals the Japanese stereotype, and some that would bring more value to the world as crushed metal cubes.
I want to argue against engineering the cars to last only as long as the typical new-car-buyer keeps one, but I have a hard time doing so. If most new cars aren't kept longer than that, why should you care how long the car lasts after the first owner has sold it? I think you could argue that the poor reputation of your used cars could harm new car sales in the long term, but I don't know how to quantify that. In the absence of numbers of how such reliability planning harms long-term sales, I could totally see decision-makers coming to favor designing to a 3-year reliability target, with the car being considered disposable thereafter.
In either case, if the average car buyer buys a car every N years, and thus, you treat that as reliability target, then targeting for a median or mean reliability of N years strikes me as the wrong way to to that. IMO, the ideal reliability distribution would be something of a skewed one, with a long right-hand tail. Keeping the assumption above of N = 3 years, then you'd want the mode on the reliability distribution to be 3 years, with the band below the mode as narrow as possible. If you couldn't reasonably make it any narrower, than push the target modal reliability up, such that the number of cars that fall below N are significantly less than the ones meet it. Yes, that means there will be more cars exceeding your reliability target, but having cars that lasted longer than the minimum necessary strikes me as a lesser evil than having ones that didn't.
Of course, for all I know, the US manufacturers do exactly as I described in the above paragraph, and the German and Japanese brands simply have a longer tail.
Edit: I should make it clear, I personally don't agree with this statement, "If most new cars aren't kept longer than that, why should you care how long the car lasts after the first owner has sold it?". I'm not trying to excuse or justify the low reliability ratings of domestic manufacturers, I'm trying to understand how they got there. I'm trying to model the decision-making of US car manufacturers, and it's a mindset I can see them running on, given the paragraphs above it.
Those down-voting, I'd love to hear your counterarguments. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong, but it's hard to make less-stupid arguments without knowing how I'm wrong.