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Egypt has shut off the Internet (update: not everywhere)

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Re: Egypt has shut off the Internet (update: not everywhere)

#41

Post by jacquesm »

jemfinch wrote: post #34
seancron wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which makes me wonder, is there a way to make an ad-hoc, decentralized internet that a government could not shut down?

It's arguable, but I'd say that the real Internet is like that, at least in well-connected places like the US. I cannot imagine the act of God necessary to stop Americans from accessing Google.

Take out a few core locations and you'd have a very hard time getting to google, or most other sites for that matter.

All it takes for the vast majority of the internet to become unusable for the larger fraction of the population is to take the .com, .net and .org TLDs down. Your packets will still route but where do you want them to go? It would take long enough for people to regroup and find work-arounds that more permanent ways of blocking access could be rolled out.

Re: Egypt has shut off the Internet (update: not everywhere)

#42

Post by jacquesm »

dy wrote: post #37

What's interesting to me is that we're in a constant war between the technologies used by governments to control their people and the technologies used by people to uproot their governments. There's a post below about mesh networking, I can see in a few years cell phones being powerful enough to broadcast network over a large enough area that they'll be ad hoc networks without a central kill switch. One thing I fear…

> I can see in a few years cell phones being powerful enough to broadcast network over a large enough area that they'll be ad hoc networks without a central kill switch.

Cell phones have actually lost power, not gained power over the last two decades. Likely they'll lose more power still as the push to increase battery life continues and coverage increases.

Re: Egypt has shut off the Internet (update: not everywhere)

#43

Post by bennysaurus »

hoag wrote: post #11

Just a friendly heads-up that everyone should help spread the word for people in Egypt (and anywhere else with blocked/censored Internet) to download and start using AnchorFree's Hotspot Shield as soon as possible. I've even started using it here in the States for maximum online security.

No ISP connectivity isn't blocked/censored internet, the ISP links are down completely. There isn't a possible way to get through something that isn't even connected. Ham radio is funnily enough a better solution.

Re: Egypt has shut off the Internet (update: not everywhere)

#44

Post by LiveTheDream »

jerf wrote: post #33
Zak wrote: post #18

I read this, and become more concerned about bills to give the US President an Internet kill-switch. They say it's to protect against cyber-warfare, but something makes me think it's just as likely to be applied to civil unrest, and civil unrest doesn't usually happen unless there's something pretty wrong with the government.

Well, good news, it doesn't matter. If the situation has deteriorated to that point, the government will just do it anyhow. I don't support the bill anyhow, because I'm not really a "let's just give one central authority all the power because why not?" kind of guy, but honestly, there's not much point worrying about that particular kind of misuse of that particular power. Standard martial law concepts would probably…

It absolutely does matter! The government "just doing it" as described is an extreme, reactionary measure comparable to all those authoritarian governments we criticize daily. Contrast this to a federal kill-switch policy, approved by elected officials who ostensibly represent their constituents. Though the end result is the same, the context is drastically different (which in turn will affect how many people interpret the action -- crazy civil liberty violation, or prudent and justified response).

Re: Egypt has shut off the Internet (update: not everywhere)

#45

Post by nantes »

seancron wrote: post #28
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. They're called mesh networks, and I think you've just described why they will never take off. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesh_networking

Interesting. Are there any pieces of software that can transform ordinary laptops/phones into mesh networks? A quick search shows B.A.T.M.A.N. ( http://www.open-mesh.org/ ), but it looks a little tricky to setup. Are there any simple ways for non-technical users to run a mesh network node? A "click to install and run" solution would be ideal, but I'd be interested in hearing about other people's experiences with mesh…

BATMAN, OSLR, and Open-Mesh are pretty slick. But, and a big but, we struggled running a network of ~500 of them in one medium-size Midwest city.

It's not targeted at laptops, but at embedded boards somewhat like you would find in a commodity Linksys home router.

The best help they can get is, IMO, coders and new hardware to develop for/test on.

Re: Egypt has shut off the Internet (update: not everywhere)

#46

Post by nantes »

jacquesm wrote: post #29
seancron wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Are there any pieces of software that can transform ordinary laptops/phones into mesh networks? A quick search shows B.A.T.M.A.N. ( http://www.open-mesh.org/ ), but it looks a little tricky to setup. Are there any simple ways for non-technical users to run a mesh network node? A "click to install and run" solution would be ideal, but I'd be interested in hearing about other people's experiences with mesh…

Open wrt support mesh networking iirc. There is also this: http://www.wing-project.org/ And a bunch of others.

IIRC, OpenMesh actually sits on top of OpenWRT.

Re: Egypt has shut off the Internet (update: not everywhere)

#47

Post by mnutt »

jacquesm wrote: post #42
dy wrote: post #37

What's interesting to me is that we're in a constant war between the technologies used by governments to control their people and the technologies used by people to uproot their governments. There's a post below about mesh networking, I can see in a few years cell phones being powerful enough to broadcast network over a large enough area that they'll be ad hoc networks without a central kill switch. One thing I fear…

> I can see in a few years cell phones being powerful enough to broadcast network over a large enough area that they'll be ad hoc networks without a central kill switch. Cell phones have actually lost power, not gained power over the last two decades. Likely they'll lose more power still as the push to increase battery life continues and coverage increases.

That's true, but it all comes down to the use cases. With the awful AT&T coverage and carriers actively refusing to provide more bandwidth, wouldn't it be nice to have a phone that had WiMax?

Power constraints are very real right now, but with growing bandwidth needs and none of the other variables changing very quickly, it's at least a possibility that someone could figure out how to put something like WiMax into a phone.

Re: Egypt has shut off the Internet (update: not everywhere)

#48

Post by mey »

nkassis wrote: post #5
martinkallstrom wrote: post #3

This is the infowar at close range. Contrary to the gut reaction of most commenting on the unfolding of events in Egypt, the reason for the regime to shut down communications has little to do with stopping information to reach the outside world. It is information getting into the country that is of real danger to them, such as the AP video of a man getting shot today. They are shutting down the Internet (As confirmed…

Except now they pissed off all 20 million (the guardian has a nice chart at the end of their article that states this) internet users. We will have to see but I think tomorrow's planed move will just have gotten bigger because of this move.

I wonder how many places of employment in Egypt require a internet connection to function. I wonder how many of these people now have absolutely nothing to do for work or entertainment tomorrow, who may not have joined the protest, now will be...

Re: Egypt has shut off the Internet (update: not everywhere)

#49

Post by sunir »

jerf wrote: post #40
Zak wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Passing a law like that means they'll put in the infrastructure to actually do it. If things deteriorate significantly in the US, it is likely that attempting to gain the ability to shut down the internet would directly trigger some sort of civil unrest while now it only triggers angry blog posts.

I am at a loss as to what this additional infrastructure really permits that having lots of armored men with guns does not. Armored men with guns are a flexible bunch, they can do lots of things. The marginal distinction to the person in power between pressing a button and ordering other people to go shut the net down is pretty minimal; it's not like without this switch, the President is going to actually have go out…

The question is how many armed men with guns will it take. Armed men with guns are not an infinite supply, and during a massive unrest, presumably in high demand. Why make it easy?

Re: Egypt has shut off the Internet (update: not everywhere)

#50

Post by dlokshin »

LiveTheDream wrote: post #44
jerf wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, good news, it doesn't matter. If the situation has deteriorated to that point, the government will just do it anyhow. I don't support the bill anyhow, because I'm not really a "let's just give one central authority all the power because why not?" kind of guy, but honestly, there's not much point worrying about that particular kind of misuse of that particular power. Standard martial law concepts would probably…

It absolutely does matter! The government "just doing it" as described is an extreme, reactionary measure comparable to all those authoritarian governments we criticize daily. Contrast this to a federal kill-switch policy, approved by elected officials who ostensibly represent their constituents. Though the end result is the same, the context is drastically different (which in turn will affect how many people interpr…

So totalitarian is not totalitarian if willingly imposed? I respectfully disagree.
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